Alpine Fir Penjing
- Thread starter grouper52
- Start date
grouper52
Masterpiece
In spite of, or because of the faults you have captured the feeling of a mountain scene. In this case that trumps most other issues. I find it charming.
Lowering the top of the the tree on the left is an improvement. For me the only issue which can not be over looked is the pot. It is as welcome as vandals spray painting on boulders. It seems the pot was used to justify it as a Penjing rather than Bonsai. I like this scene very much, but it is crying for a plain pot.
Mark
Lowering the top of the the tree on the left is an improvement. For me the only issue which can not be over looked is the pot. It is as welcome as vandals spray painting on boulders. It seems the pot was used to justify it as a Penjing rather than Bonsai. I like this scene very much, but it is crying for a plain pot.
Mark
anttal63
Mame
nice one grouper!
grouper52
Masterpiece
Mark, if you can find me or make me an affordable pot this size (even wider would be better, IMO!) I will gladly change pots!
I'm afraid this semi-shallow Chinese thing is the best I can do, the best I've seen in this size range. A slab might also be possible, of course, but that's also a mighty big slab! The pot, BTW, was not "used to justify it as a Penjing rather than a bonsai" - what a strange idea to think that I or anyone else would feel a need to go down such a mental/semantic road! "Loco loco ka!" as my wife would say in her finest Tagalog.
grouper52
Grouper,
Recently I heard Peter Warren speak about the importance of the container in the total image. He suggested that the pot was as imortant as the tree in capturing the total feeling. We all have used the wrong pot for a tree due to any number of issues ranging from lack of $, to poor choice to the only thing we had that was large enough to hold it. I'm gald to hear your choice was not based on wanting to classify it as Penjing. I do think that is crazy but I have heard it before.
If you mentioned the demensions of the composition I missed it. If a good replacement can not be found maybe you could stain it to tone down. You have created a calm and inviting scene but the pot is loud and distracting to me. If it doesn't bother you, that's all that matters. Sorry to have offended you.
Mark
Recently I heard Peter Warren speak about the importance of the container in the total image. He suggested that the pot was as imortant as the tree in capturing the total feeling. We all have used the wrong pot for a tree due to any number of issues ranging from lack of $, to poor choice to the only thing we had that was large enough to hold it. I'm gald to hear your choice was not based on wanting to classify it as Penjing. I do think that is crazy but I have heard it before.
If you mentioned the demensions of the composition I missed it. If a good replacement can not be found maybe you could stain it to tone down. You have created a calm and inviting scene but the pot is loud and distracting to me. If it doesn't bother you, that's all that matters. Sorry to have offended you.
Mark
grouper52
Masterpiece
No, Mark, I wasn't offended, hence the smilies. I don't offend easily, although I do find myself getting annoyed easily at times, but I wasn't even annoyed by the comments, just sort of bemused and bewildered.
At any rate, your comments, along with those of Will and others, have got me to thinking that perhaps the composition is turning out nicely enough to spring for a really fine suiban if I ever find one the right size. I have seen them offered on eBay twice in recent years that I recall, but the cost of shipping is very high because they are so delicate when that large and shallow. If anyone knows of a source where they can be ordered, please let me know. The current pot is 36" X 18", but it looks a bit cramped, and might look even more so in a more shallow tray, so perhaps even a bit larger/broader would be better. When I have thought of putting it on a slab I have envisioned one at least 48-60".
Thanks for your input, Mark.
G52
grouper52
Masterpiece
Another thought I had, Mark - I wonder if the Vandalian markings and background red can be ground off with a drill-mounted wire brush, or if it is deeper into the clay itself somehow. From the flawless condition it is in after sitting outside for so long, I doubt it is some simple surface treatment that will chip off easily, but I might try grinding an area on the back with a coarse steel brush and see what can be done.
G52
G52
Rick Moquin
Omono
I never thought that pot was that size. It's amazing how things can be deceptive. Are the scriptures raised or inset in any fashion? If not a couple of coats of minwax gel stain might do the trick. I have done this to a few of my pots and they have weathered nicely (no one would know) except a critical eye at an exhibition. But, if this composition does not see a display then, what the heck. Personally I find nothing wrong with your pot. I have seen several similar pots and the orange and brown ones on display at the Chinese pavilion of the Montreal Botanical Gardens. But some folks are purist...
grouper52
Masterpiece
Yeah, Rick, I'll look at it a bit when I get home tonight if there's any light left. That miniwax gel just might do the trick. Thanks!
I've never found anything wrong with the pot either, and could probably just adopt my fallback position of being a "mere hobbiest" who doesn't display and doesn't care about the purists, etc.
BUT, the truth is, by posting here at B'Nut, I AM "displaying", and displaying to a fairly sophisticated audience here among the big boys and the purists who DO care about such things, and many of whom know a heck of a lot more than I do about such things. And the truth also is that I would LOVE to use a plain brown pot or tray for this planting if I had one, so if I can alter this pot to look more quiet I think I'll go for it. While I often like the Chinese aesthetic more than the Japanese when it comes to trees, I've always been much more partial to a fine Japanese pot than to anything China has produced since the revolution.
Grouper,
That is one very large pot! The stain just might do it. The slab might be a better option in the future. I saw a video a few years ago which demonstrated construction of chicken wire, newspaper and layers of concrete stained to look like stone. Might be an interesting project if you could get a hold of step by step directions or that video.
I just remembered seeing a different version in Peter Adams book " The Art of Bonsai" using fiberglass and resin bond concrete. The shape they used is not what you want, but the technique would.
Mark
That is one very large pot! The stain just might do it. The slab might be a better option in the future. I saw a video a few years ago which demonstrated construction of chicken wire, newspaper and layers of concrete stained to look like stone. Might be an interesting project if you could get a hold of step by step directions or that video.
I just remembered seeing a different version in Peter Adams book " The Art of Bonsai" using fiberglass and resin bond concrete. The shape they used is not what you want, but the technique would.
Mark
Anonymous User
Banned
The history of bonsai pots and the relationship in the overall presentation is well documented in Robert J. Barans' article, "Pen, The Origins of the Shallow Tray."
The very word "bonsai" includes the pot/tray as well as the tree so it is safe to say that the pot is indeed just as important as the tree in the final visual presentation, without the pot, there could be no bonsai. The best tree in the world can be made less by a poor container selection and the worst tree could be made better with the right selection.
I agree with you in that we all fail in this area from time to time, sometimes it is better to wait for the right pot, then to just pot a bonsai in one that is on hand or inexpensive and force a two to 5 year wait until the next re-potting. I have a full cascade that is in a pot I hate (originally place in for training purposes), I have bought two very nice pots for it to date (one Erin from our very own Tom at Shady Side Bonsai), but upon months of looking at the new pots placed in front of the old and a couple virts....I am still not totally happy, so the search continues and the tree remains waiting for a re-pot in the perfect pot. Cascades are difficult to find, my usual source (Tokonoma) seems extremely shy in this area as well.
Grouper,
Bonsai by the Monastery has some Japanese pots other than Tokonoma that would do this forest justice and the pricing on this other brand is very reasonable. I have ordered a few dozen Shohin pots by this manufacturer for workshops and also personal use and the quality is very good.
Will
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Ross
Shohin
I was blown away when I heard that it is not uncommon in Japan to rent a pot for a show.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I think a slab is the most appropriate container(?) for this bonsai, it will take the entire image back to its influence; a copse of woods in the mountains. I think anything less will be ----- less.
grouper52
Masterpiece
darrellw
Mame
Hi Grouper,
You might look into creating a slab from fiberglass or concrete.
-Darrell
You might look into creating a slab from fiberglass or concrete.
-Darrell
Zappa
Yamadori
I like the distribution of the trees....I know you said that you didnt want to hear about the even number rule...but I wanted to point out tetraphobia...If you're going for a chinese feel...probably should stay away from the number 4....since it's a chinese homophone of death...Unless you're planning to make them look "deathy" later on....with jin...
As an American, without any chinese schemas, I love this grouping....I believe practitioners in the US need to define our rules based on our culture while using our media.....maybe we should shun all groupings that contain 13 trees
Then again....I have no idea what Im talking about....Just wanted to get my posting number up....
As an American, without any chinese schemas, I love this grouping....I believe practitioners in the US need to define our rules based on our culture while using our media.....maybe we should shun all groupings that contain 13 trees
Then again....I have no idea what Im talking about....Just wanted to get my posting number up....
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Vance,
How about something like this? Is it more?
You have the idea, and I am not being critical of your virtual. I would like to see something a bit more rustic and rough like the whole scene were chiseled from the mountain side. I realize this kind of detail is hard to do with soft ware and that is probably what you see as well.
Tiny Lumberjack
Seedling
Vance,
How about something like this? Is it more?
Way too symmetrical. That virt looks like a target.
Personally I don't mind the pot it is in.
Beautiful planting btw.
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