dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
I like looking at the back side (not only trees)
Advice on removing a large J Maple sacrificial branch
- Thread starter Lars Grimm
- Start date
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Scars show an old trees struggle to live.
Maybe an uro?
Maybe an uro?
drew33998
Masterpiece
I would have to assume that the tree will be healing iver wounds for the better part of ten years. So if you have the time then do it slowly. If not i would think about incorporating them into the design. Great trunk though!
drew33998
Masterpiece
Hard to tell but i would be slightlt concerned about the black spots as well. Also the top left branch looks to be infected with something...
iant
Chumono
I'd cut the whole thing off and make it concave and leave a little bump in the center of the wound.
I've tried the partial cut thing before and it didn't work for me. I ended up with the same size wound a year later when I cleaned up the 2nd half of the cut because it created raised edges that I didn't like.
I wouldn't worry about the scar.
If you want it off just take it off. I had what I think was a similar sized branch heal over completely in 2.5 yr.
Here's before with 2 similar sized branches about 1.25 inch diameter.
Here's after the cuts:
Here's a little over a year later:
Problem was that the upper half of that nub stuck out enough that after I shaved it down again I ended up with as big of a wound as I would have had if I'd just done it from the get go. I think in retrospect I was too aggressive with getting it perfect and could have left some of the healing but it didn't work for me. Here's after cleaning it up:
And 1 year later (1 year ago):
And 1 year after that (this month):
The wound that had a 1 year head start is closed and flush. It just makes some circular lines in the bark that weave around the center of it but I don't think it's ugly...
Didn't mean to hijack this thread but I just figure if I'm going to give you my opinion I might as well add photos if I've got em.
Ian
I've tried the partial cut thing before and it didn't work for me. I ended up with the same size wound a year later when I cleaned up the 2nd half of the cut because it created raised edges that I didn't like.
I wouldn't worry about the scar.
If you want it off just take it off. I had what I think was a similar sized branch heal over completely in 2.5 yr.
Here's before with 2 similar sized branches about 1.25 inch diameter.
Here's after the cuts:
Here's a little over a year later:
Problem was that the upper half of that nub stuck out enough that after I shaved it down again I ended up with as big of a wound as I would have had if I'd just done it from the get go. I think in retrospect I was too aggressive with getting it perfect and could have left some of the healing but it didn't work for me. Here's after cleaning it up:
And 1 year later (1 year ago):
And 1 year after that (this month):
The wound that had a 1 year head start is closed and flush. It just makes some circular lines in the bark that weave around the center of it but I don't think it's ugly...
Didn't mean to hijack this thread but I just figure if I'm going to give you my opinion I might as well add photos if I've got em.
Ian
dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
Nice result, thanks for sharing.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
That is a great photo series Ian. It makes me feel more confident I can heal over the big scar. I noticed that in your partial cut you removed the bottom portion. The pictures that I have seen always remove the top half. Any reason why you did it this way?
Lars
Lars Grimm
Chumono
The black on the trunk just needed a brushing. When dry you can barely see it and it rubbed off with my fingers. There is an upper branch nub that is dead that just needs to be lopped off as well.
drew33998
Masterpiece
Whew thats a relief. Im sure it was quite an investment
Eric Group
Masterpiece
In my climate I could heal a wound this large in a couple years. Cut it flush without hesitation and do a little concave, cover it with a good wound sealant and let the top run. Mine always heal over fine.
Once healed, how you treat it from there determines how it will look. Cathy Shaner explained her technique to make them look good is to simply rough up the wound after healing a bit with your finger nail or the dull edge of a tool- this emulates the natural scuffing that occurs on trees in the wild as critters run up and down the trunk, branches rub it... and as we baby our trees so much, it does Not happen to our Bonsai.. so roughing up the areas you need to blend in, knocks off the unsightly bits of bark that push out on a big heal, and eventually makes it look more like the rest of the trunk.
Once healed, how you treat it from there determines how it will look. Cathy Shaner explained her technique to make them look good is to simply rough up the wound after healing a bit with your finger nail or the dull edge of a tool- this emulates the natural scuffing that occurs on trees in the wild as critters run up and down the trunk, branches rub it... and as we baby our trees so much, it does Not happen to our Bonsai.. so roughing up the areas you need to blend in, knocks off the unsightly bits of bark that push out on a big heal, and eventually makes it look more like the rest of the trunk.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
Very interesting tip. I had not heard that before. I also might end up thread grafting through the spot as well which would help hide the scar and also promote full healing. I think my climate in NC is pretty similar to what you have down in SC so good to know your healing timeline.
iant
Chumono
I was hoping that the flow to/from the top would heal the scar at the bottom.... same theory as having a branch above a scar to help it heal faster.
This whole thing didn't really work for me though, as I lost all the progress I had made when I cleaned it up a year later.
Ian
The way to do it is like this:
Cut out a chunk, where I've marked in red. This will keep a life line going up the sacrifice branch. Let the sacrifice branch live, but don't let it run wild. Let something at the apex of the tree run wild.
What will happen is the tree will start to callous over the trunk. Next year, cut it down a little deeper. You may have to support the branch so that it doesn't tear down.
The problem with just doing a straight chop is you could get dieback below where you cut, all the way down to the roots! Leaving the underside of the sacrifice keeps that alive and allows the tree to start to callous over.
The reason not to let the sacrifice run is you want the callous to be on the trunk, not in the sacrifice branch. If it's growing too strong, the tree will callous the branch more than the trunk!
This is an Ebihara technique, by the way.
Cut out a chunk, where I've marked in red. This will keep a life line going up the sacrifice branch. Let the sacrifice branch live, but don't let it run wild. Let something at the apex of the tree run wild.What will happen is the tree will start to callous over the trunk. Next year, cut it down a little deeper. You may have to support the branch so that it doesn't tear down.
The problem with just doing a straight chop is you could get dieback below where you cut, all the way down to the roots! Leaving the underside of the sacrifice keeps that alive and allows the tree to start to callous over.
The reason not to let the sacrifice run is you want the callous to be on the trunk, not in the sacrifice branch. If it's growing too strong, the tree will callous the branch more than the trunk!
This is an Ebihara technique, by the way.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
Great explanation. I was planning on wiring the branch to the trunk or via a stake attached to the wood box for support. I'm guessing the easiest way to do this is two vertical cuts with a thin saw and then use some root pruners to cut out the notch. Then use a grafting knife to clean up the cut surface and get a nice clean cambial layer followed by cut paste.
Use a chisel.
Sorry... yes, use a saw to make the vertical cuts, then use a chisel to get the chunk out. Clean up with a grafting knife.
peterbone
Mame
I'm not sure I would use the gradual removal method for this branch. One of your photos shows that the branch has already been chopped higher up. It still has a bit of foliage, but not much. Having a lot of foliage is what helps it callus quickly with that method. If the sacrifice branch hadn't been chopped then that method could have worked well. I would just cut it off and make the wound concave.
Not exactly.
It's rapid growth of new foliage that causes the calous. So, to heal using the Ebihara method, you do let the apex of the trunk you want to keep run. That builds calous on the trunk side of the chunk that's been removed. If you let the sacrifice branch grow instead, it will tend to calous over on the branch side more than the trunk! (I know because I once made that mistake! After that, I kept the sacrifice trimmed, and let the main trunk send a runner. Much better results!)
And, you do cut back on the sacrifice.
Lars Grimm
Chumono
Since the initial photo there has been a lot of new growth on all of the branches, including the large one to be removed. The included photo was taken in early Spring after the first repot so it looks scraggly.
@Adair M Is it the flow of resources from the leaves higher up on the trunk down to the roots that induces the callus or the reverse?
