Advice on Broom style creation

[SeanS]

What's the solution for preventing water collecting in that spot then? A depression/indent in the trunk seems like it'd take years to fill in or heal over completely. I'm a bit worried about the heartwood rotting there until that point

fwiw, my broom trunk is currently flat cut and covered with cut paste

Fill it with a putty cut paste completely and form a little convex dome on top

 

[Wood]

Let the heartwood rot. Go out in nature and have a look or see the attached photo of one of the best brooms in Europe (it's not my tree). All the heartwood is gone.

Who's tree is that? Gorgeous tree though it's unconventional. I also wouldn't call it a classic broom style like Adair's broom zelkova. There's enough generations-old brooms in Japan that letting major decay happen seems less than ideal.

I doubt that strategy is ideal for bonsai that are handed down through generations. Are there any 50+ year old deciduous that have major decay to that extent? I'm even struggling to recall landscape deciduous trees that have survived for decades after huge amounts of decay -- I'm sure some are out there, but it's not what comes to mind when I think of ancient old tree. I've heard from several pros who've apprenticed in Japan that deciduous with exposed/rotted out deadwood aren't durable in the long term and are significantly cheaper for that reason

 

[leatherback]

I've heard from several pros who've apprenticed in Japan that deciduous with exposed/rotted out deadwood aren't durable in the long term and are significantly cheaper for that reason

Yup. In "the west" we still do not have the intergenerational passing on of bonsai culture that is common in Japan, and hence we do not value potential age aspects enough when choosen species and treatment.

 

[Matte91]

I don't care how the japanese value the trees. I don't like their zelkova brooms made from cuttings. They doesn't look naturlistic at all.

I would every single day rather own the tree in the link or previous picture, instead of a not naturlistic zelkova broom made from seed og cuttings, that you will find thousands of in Japan. My opinion.

European Bonsai San Show 2019 priser til Martin Nielsen – Dansk Bonsai Selskab

bonsai-danmark.dk

 

[leatherback]

one of the best brooms in Europe (it's not my tree).

Whose is it then? Not having come across it, I am keep to know more about the best broom in EU. (According to who, I wonder?)

I don't care how the japanese value the trees.

Does not really matter whether you care.
WHen learning about bonsai it is however good to realize that "naturalistic" is not per se what traditional bonsai is about. It is about an idealized form, and over perfected tree, with aims and ambitions for each style/form.

Traditional brooms with all branches of equal strength are amongst the most valued bonsai out there. I doubt you will find thousands in Japan. It is rare to find good ones that are a few decades old as they require a lot of dedication to retain well balanced.

 

[Matte91]

Whose is it then? Not having come across it, I am keep to know more about the best broom in EU. (According to who, I wonder?)

It's funny because if you took time to follow my link and translated the text. Then all your questions are answered

 

[leatherback]

It's funny because if you took time to follow my link and translated the text. Then all your questions are answered

It is funny that two people have now asked you on an English forum who owns the tree that you claim to be the best in Europe, and you answer is that people should go to an external site which is not in English, translate the page and all will be revealed.

 

[MMJNICE]

I'm pretty sure Eric's tree is grown from a seed with a natural shape that was selected from a bunch of seedlings he grew years ago. I have bought a couple of young seedlings selected from Eric's stock that has shapes very similar to the tree u used as the example in the beginning of your post. I would think it would be much more difficult to get a tree like that from a chop. Getting a broom tree from a chop is pretty straight forward. But a tree like Eric's is just Genetic chance but that's my thoughts not definitely facts.

 

[BrightsideB]

Comparing deciduous with decaying wood to one’s without isn’t productive. I love the decaying wood on deciduous. But it has it’s shortcomings on the health of the tree. It’s simply not ideal for that reason. But aesthetically I think it tells a story of perseverance and adds a real naturalistic feel that one without can’t achieve.

 

[Matte91]

It is funny that two people have now asked you on an English forum who owns the tree that you claim to be the best in Europe, and you answer is that people should go to an external site which is not in English, translate the page and all will be revealed.

Many people in Europe has the opinion that MN make the best brooms from scratch.
Note that MN has dug up his Elm trees him self more than 30 years ago and worked them as brooms since. For me thats way more inspiring than importing an "finish" zelkova broom from Japan for 10.000 eur/dollars.

 

[Wood]

Hmm, I'm wondering if these (Eric Schrader's zelkova from the original post or Martin Nielsen's trees) are really "broom" style. Yes, they have a short vertical trunk and a broad canopy, but the branch structure is wildly different and completely lack the artificiality of Adair's zelkova or Ebihara's brooms. Generically calling it a "park tree" seems more appropriate and relevant to the OP's question. Brooms are hard because the artificiality leaves little room for variation or mistakes

 

[BobbyLane]

Believe it or not, many Zelkova actually do take on a broom like appearance in the wild and no these aren't pollards.
I wouldnt say the bonsai brooms look 'artificial' they can look just like trees too.

This one is up the road from me in South London
Zelkova_(Dulwich_Common)_04-10-07_11 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

After it was pollarded
Zelkova carpinfolia by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

Tree in first post is definitely more informal upright

Wild Zelkova broom like form

 

[BobbyLane]

Tree in first post is a main trunk thats split into two and then forked again and again. That should give an indication of how to go about creating one. Good starting material would have a main trunk with maybe a thinner branch to cut back to and then another decent sized branch coming off the side of the main trunk. Bearing in mind Cherry might not ramify as well as Zelkova

Oak in similar form
20180517_141509 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

 

[Wood]

broom like appearance in the wild

I guess my point is that these are not in "the wild" -- they're in a human landscape that doesn't have the same pressures that a truly wild scenario would

 

[raffaelbaer]

I'm pretty sure Eric's tree is grown from a seed with a natural shape that was selected from a bunch of seedlings he grew years ago. I have bought a couple of young seedlings selected from Eric's stock that has shapes very similar to the tree u used as the example in the beginning of your post. I would think it would be much more difficult to get a tree like that from a chop. Getting a broom tree from a chop is pretty straight forward. But a tree like Eric's is just Genetic chance but that's my thoughts not definitely facts.

I think that way more and more! However I will try, since I dont want to go for the japanese formal broom style definitely, just dont really like the look as much, though I admire them for the great technique one must have. In the end If the broom plan wont work out, I can always cut It lower and make an informal upright i guess .

 

[raffaelbaer]

Tree in first post is a main trunk thats split into two and then forked again and again. That should give an indication of how to go about creating one. Good starting material would have a main trunk with maybe a thinner branch to cut back to and then another decent sized branch coming off the side of the main trunk.

Actually I saw a bud form right arround the 12cm mark on my tree, so maybe I can start to develop the first side trunk right now. We will see...

 

[raffaelbaer]

I will keep this thread updated, sort of like a progression!