Adcocks dwarf Jwp pinus?

[0soyoung]

@Adair M, would you explain how it is possible to ever get the foliage back closer to the trunk since JWP doesn't back bud. And, can you explain how it can be that a specimen can have a thick trunk like yours and yet have foliage not that far away from the trunk. I think this would be most interesting/valuable for @LeonardB to understand.

 

[Vance Wood]

You can see why I thought this might have potential. Especially with the trunk development.
I hope Vance Woods thinks it is worth the trouble ( aleady wired it for the first time ).

It is really difficult to see clearly with from the photo you have provided. You should try to get your photos with some sort of neutral background that does not wipe out the detail you are trying to show.

 

[LeonardB]

It is really difficult to see clearly with from the photo you have provided. You should try to get your photos with some sort of neutral background that does not wipe out the detail you are trying to show.

Thanks Vance,
I haven't taken photo's before and now see your point about reducing the noise around the subject to clarify the object.
Next photo's will be clearer ( I hope ).

 

[Adair M]

Oso,

JWP will back bud, if healthy, but is what I would call a "reluctant backbudder". Some cultivars backbud more readily than others. I am not familiar with this particular cultivar, so I cannot say whether it will be easy to make it backbud or not.

However, for any pine, wiring it out properly will expose the branches close to the trunk to the sun. Which promotes backbudding.

For any tree, good health promotes backbudding. Good Heath means you need good roots. Which starts by having good soil, and proper fertilizing.

Keeping foliage close to the trunk is critical to keeping a bonsai for the long term. Eventually every bonsai will grow its limbs to be too long, and it will be necessary to cut back. So to be able to cut back, there has to be growth to cut back to!

How do we get it? Wiring it out so that sunlight can penetrate the canopy can promote backbudding, and keep the interior foliage alive. Keeping the canopy thinned so that sunlight can pierce thru is also essential.

The thick trunk? My tree is an old tree, and has lots of branches. The trunk slowly developed "naturally" and wasn't forced. This is the old way of growing trees. Slowly.

But, again, my initial comments were directed at the wiring of Leonard's tree. The wiring is not the best I've ever seen, but not the worst either. But, it's there. He's just not using it. He should now go in and put little curves in his branches.

 

[LeonardB]

Thanks Adair,
Advanced may be a little understated, it is a beautiful tree.
I do see your point about the branches. It is designed to compress the long leggy branches and pull the foliage closer? I was trying to spread the branch out like the last illustration, but do you mean I should bend even more down to cascade all of the branches now? I hesitated because it seemed a huge amount of stress that I had not done to any tree to this point ( the tree was growing every which way and some were almost straight up ). Initially, I wondered if this wasn't just going to be a practice tree.
Regards,
Leonard

 

[petegreg]

You hesitated and you did right. You can apply the wire to open the canopy as you did and add the curves later. When and how was the tree seriously insulted before wiring? It's important too...

 

[Adair M]

Thanks Adair,
Advanced may be a little understated, it is a beautiful tree.
I do see your point about the branches. It is designed to compress the long leggy branches and pull the foliage closer? I was trying to spread the branch out like the last illustration, but do you mean I should bend even more down to cascade all of the branches now? I hesitated because it seemed a huge amount of stress that I had not done to any tree to this point ( the tree was growing every which way and some were almost straight up ). Initially, I wondered if this wasn't just going to be a practice tree.
Regards,
Leonard

You don't have to pull them down with big bends. Just put in a little wiggle in some of those straight branches. Look at my last diagram. See how all the little branches curve a bit?

Here's another diagram:



This is the "before" picture.

This is the "after" picture;



Look how they tightened the angles the branches come off the mainline branch. 45 degrees or so. Many people mistakenly set them at 90. That's wrong.

Here's my branch again:



I have a lot of little branches, so I have to make the angles even tighter! But I still have a little wiggle in the branches.

 

[Vance Wood]

Here is my remaining Adcox. I sold the others. There is a lot that needs to be done. I just started throwing some wire on it this morning. I don't know when I will get it done, I am faced with some problems here at home that require my attention.

 

[LeonardB]

Wow Vance, this is a much better specimen. Did you say how old?
My main trunk development isn't even close to yours, maybe I should plant it in a trainer box and let it grow out back for another 5 years before I touch it again.

 

[Adair M]

Well...

It does need to get repotted into better soil. I can't really see what it's in with all the stuff on the surface, but I bet it's in typical nursery soil.

White pines do better in a drier mix. Boon mix with a little extra pumice is perfect. Now is NOT the time to do it. Wait until next spring, when you start to see the buds swell. A "half bare root" repot us what I would recommend.

You don't have to put it in a grow Box. Wouldn't hurt, but a slightly oversized bonsai container would be fine.

Your tree is leggy. Could be due to the soil. Too wet soil makes them leggy, as does inadequate sun. White Pine is a high mountain tree. They like full sun.

You might want to get some of the micronutrients that Julian Adams puts on his Zuisho. It's not a fertilizer, but trace minerals. Works for him. (But don't use his soil! He uses turface, and it holds too much water! I bought a tree from him, and I've moved it to Boon Mix, and it's doing much better!)

 

[0soyoung]

You might want to get some of the micronutrients that Julian Adams puts on his Zuisho. It's not a fertilizer, but trace minerals. Works for him. (But don't use his soil! He uses turface, and it holds too much water! I bought a tree from him, and I've moved it to Boon Mix, and it's doing much better!)

What does this infomercial have to do with an Adcock's Dwarf?

 

[M. Frary]

You might want to get some of the micronutrients that Julian Adams puts on his Zuisho

Or some of that White Shark stuff that Cmeg used. It went real well. Made it all nice and fuzzy and stuff.

 

[Adair M]

Or some of that White Shark stuff that Cmeg used. It went real well. Made it all nice and fuzzy and stuff.

White Shark... Is that mychorazzae? If so, that's not what I'm talking about. The stuff Julian sells is micronutrients. Minerals and stuff.

Oso, I'm sorry you are offended by my recommendation of commercial products. "Boon's Mix" has become a name for a blend of soil make from akadama,pumice, and lava. Boon doesn't make any money on it. It's just his recipe. Others sell it.

Adcock's JWP appears to be very similiar to Zuisho. Both are dwarf forms of JWP. I imagine their horticultural requirements are similar.

Both specimens pictured in this thread are rather bare and lanky. Really, before the tops get worked hard, their root systems should be overhauled, and their health improved.

 

[LeonardB]

White Shark... Is that mychorazzae? If so, that's not what I'm talking about. The stuff Julian sells is micronutrients. Minerals and stuff.

Oso, I'm sorry you are offended by my recommendation of commercial products. "Boon's Mix" has become a name for a blend of soil make from akadama,pumice, and lava. Boon doesn't make any money on it. It's just his recipe. Others sell it.

Adcock's JWP appears to be very similiar to Zuisho. Both are dwarf forms of JWP. I imagine their horticultural requirements are similar.

Both specimens pictured in this thread are rather bare and lanky. Really, before the tops get worked hard, their root systems should be overhauled, and their health improved.

Adair,
Please do not apologize for the info mercial. I asked for help and that is exactly what you were providing ( and much appreciated ). At this point could I just amend the soil as it sits in the pot? And do you recommend repotting in the spring?
The tree had a much larger tree overshadowing it and I suspect it may have been overwatered as well.

 

[Adair M]

I would not do anything to the roots this time of year. It wouldn't hurt to pull weeds and remove debris off the surface. If water just sits on the surface when you water, just poke a few holes with a large screw driver a wiggle it around. This helps loosen the rootball just enough for water and air to get thru.

Don't slip pot it. Especially if you use good bonsai soil. You see, good bonsai soil is very open. Lots of air spaces. But, left alone, roots won't grow in because it's so different. Once in, however they grow great!

So, wait until next spring and do a proper "half bare root" repot.

 

[Vance Wood]

White Shark... Is that mychorazzae? If so, that's not what I'm talking about. The stuff Julian sells is micronutrients. Minerals and stuff.

Oso, I'm sorry you are offended by my recommendation of commercial products. "Boon's Mix" has become a name for a blend of soil make from akadama,pumice, and lava. Boon doesn't make any money on it. It's just his recipe. Others sell it.

Adcock's JWP appears to be very similiar to Zuisho. Both are dwarf forms of JWP. I imagine their horticultural requirements are similar.

Both specimens pictured in this thread are rather bare and lanky. Really, before the tops get worked hard, their root systems should be overhauled, and their health improved.

Included is a picture of a JWP Glauca I obtained last summer along with four others. The price was so good I decided to use the trees for experimental purposes to try out one of my theories. Here is the result: The tree was five feet tall in a five gallon nursery container. I reduced the trees down to about 24" tall and I repotted them all and sold one of them. I did this in late August and early September. Here is the result.

Incidentally the grafts are horrible, the probable reason for the cheap price, but all of the trees involved in this process are thriving like this one.

 

[Adair M]

Growing strong, Vance!
Looks like the pond basket doesn't "air prune" the roots if you set it on the ground. I guess it does on the sides.

 

[Vance Wood]

That is a corrtect observation, the basket was on the ground. In this case; I am glad because it demonstrated just how well the tree tolerated my repotting sequence.

 

[JoeR]

Maybe colander growing on the ground is a superior way to grow out trees?

 

[Vance Wood]

Growing them out in colanders is good doing it on the ground can create a problem you may not enjoy so much, that of cutting an abundance of roots you did not expect to have to deal with. I simply posted this not to start a debate but to give you guys a look at something I have been experimenting with.