Acer Palmatum 'Beni Maiko', difference between that and standard Acer Palmatum?

[Thundie]

I'm thinking of grabbing some, but have never tried a Japanese maple. Was told the Standard Japanese maple was stronger, faster growing and could handle cold better than others.

Is Beni Maiko a good maple tree to start on?

What are the differences? Are they cared for/pruned/ built the same way?

Any other little advice or nuances would be awesome.
Thanks!

 

[queenofsheba52]

Hi @Thundie , glad you found this awesome bonsai site!

I don't know the differences but there are many JM fanciers on this site and I'm sure one or more will pop in with the info you need.

 

[Rivian]

Well, unlike Beni Maiko, which is a cultivar, the "standard Japanese Maple" isnt standardised, so thats more of a general statement about green Acer palmatum seedlings. In that far its true.

I've had some seedlings I've enjoyed and some I did not. (Leaf size, shape, color etc.)

Beni Maiko is a corallinum group cultivar of Acer palmatum. It is red in Spring and greens up from there, while the new growth in Summer will still show color it wont nearly be as striking.

Corallinum types tend to be intermediate in rooting difficulty, whereas most green seedlings are very easy and dissectum is almost impossible. This is relevant for layering and cuttings so you can get it on its own roots and not have an ugly graft.

Other prominent corallinum types are Deshojo, Shin Deshojo, Corallinum, Seigen. It could be that Beni Maiko has upsides Im unaware of, but Id prefer either of the Deshojos over it.

But if you can select a good quality green seedling, that would be best for bonsai, if you dont care about Spring color.

Generally Japanese Maples seem to be strongest on seedling roots, btw. Whether their own or an understocks'.

 

[Thundie]

Well, unlike Beni Maiko, which is a cultivar, the "standard Japanese Maple" isnt standardised, so thats more of a general statement about green Acer palmatum seedlings. In that far its true.

I've had some seedlings I've enjoyed and some I did not. (Leaf size, shape, color etc.)

Beni Maiko is a corallinum group cultivar of Acer palmatum. It is red in Spring and greens up from there, while the new growth in Summer will still show color it wont nearly be as striking.

Corallinum types tend to be intermediate in rooting difficulty, whereas most green seedlings are very easy and dissectum is almost impossible. This is relevant for layering and cuttings so you can get it on its own roots and not have an ugly graft.

Other prominent corallinum types are Deshojo, Shin Deshojo, Corallinum, Seigen. It could be that Beni Maiko has upsides Im unaware of, but Id prefer either of the Deshojos over it.

But if you can select a good quality green seedling, that would be best for bonsai, if you dont care about Spring color.

Generally Japanese Maples seem to be strongest on seedling roots, btw. Whether their own or an understocks'.

I really appreciate the answer thank you, but I am quite new and especially to maples and deciduous as a whole and a bit thick haha so I hope you don't mind if I confirm/ask some extra stuff.

So basically what I am understanding is Beni Maiko is a cultivar and "standard" Acer Palmatum refers to only green seedlings? What exactly does green seedlings mean? Only very young seedlings or something else?

When you say "intermediate in rooting" what exactly do you mean by that? They're a difficult tree or have difficult roots to work with etc?

What is dissectum? Googling said it means "deeply cut" but what is that in reference to. Is it a good or bad thing if it's impossible?

Why do you prefer the deshojos?

So a good green seedlings with small leaves etc is best for bonsai? Why is that? Must they be bought as seedlings?

Last bit still kinda confuses me by what you mean by seedling roots, I understand you're talking about grafting but the "whether their own or understood" kinda goes over my head.

Sorry to be a hassle!

 

[Dav4]

'Beni Maiko' is considered semi-dwarf, I believe, which means it's a weaker grower than the species A. palmatum, and that includes both the roots and the canopy. It's a beautiful cultivar and would make a wonderful edition to the landscape, but I'd suggest sticking to standard A. palmatum for your first maple bonsai material. It'll respond more consistently to the horticultural techniques we inflict on these trees to create bonsai and will be more resilient to possible mistakes in its training or unforeseen climactic insults like unusual heat, cold, wind/getting knocked off the bench and needing an out of season re-pot, etc... Once you're comfortable growing the species, you can always dabble with some of the dwarf cultivars... they are much more fussy about pruning and are a bit more cold sensitive.

 

[Rivian]

No problem. But, I think at the stage you are you should watch some maple videos on youtube to build up a basic understanding.
In part because of the sheer mass of info, but also because you'll benefit from seeing footage of the plants theyre talking about.

Here are some ideas for channels: MrMaple, Herons Bonsai, Acerdorer, Greenwood Bonsai.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I really appreciate the answer thank you, but I am quite new and especially to maples and deciduous as a whole and a bit thick haha so I hope you don't mind if I confirm/ask some extra stuff.

So basically what I am understanding is Beni Maiko is a cultivar and "standard" Acer Palmatum refers to only green seedlings? What exactly does green seedlings mean? Only very young seedlings or something else?

When you say "intermediate in rooting" what exactly do you mean by that? They're a difficult tree or have difficult roots to work with etc?

What is dissectum? Googling said it means "deeply cut" but what is that in reference to. Is it a good or bad thing if it's impossible?

Why do you prefer the deshojos?

So a good green seedlings with small leaves etc is best for bonsai? Why is that? Must they be bought as seedlings?

Last bit still kinda confuses me by what you mean by seedling roots, I understand you're talking about grafting but the "whether their own or understood" kinda goes over my head.

Sorry to be a hassle!

When a Japanese maple is a "cultivar" it means it is a clone of a unique tree that had some interesting/unusual characteristics - be it pretty coloring, interesting leaves, dwarf growth habit, whatever. All A. palmatum 'Beni Maiko' are clones of each other - and clones of the mother tree. They are all genetically identical. There are only four ways to clone plant material - by cutting, grafting, air-layering, or by tissue culture. For Japanese maples, the majority of trees are propagated via grafting - where you take a snippet (scion) from a mother tree and graft it onto the root stock of some other generic (ie non-cultivar) Japanese maple. The top of the tree is 'Beni Maiko', the bottom is generic roots. You can usually see a swelling or scar at the graft site on younger trees - which isn't a good feature in a bonsai tree.

"Standard" A. palmatum is simply seeds that randomly occur in nature. Imagine a nursery with 1000 large Japanese maples of many different cultivars. Now imagine an empty field next to the nursery - and the empty field is covered with thousands of Japanese maple seedlings from seeds that have blown over from next door. The young trees can be any combination of features from any of those cultivars, or perhaps look like nothing special at all. They are ALL generic A. palmatum. (without cultivar name) That doesn't mean that some aren't uniquely beautiful in their own way - perhaps even more beautiful than a cultivar. In Japan, they sow fields of Japanese maples and then hand select the ones that show characteristics suitable for bonsai. It is very unusual for any of them to be special cultivars. Some call these seedlings "generic green Japanese maple" just to make sure people understand they are maples from the field/nature/random genetics.

Dissectum is a type of leaf style for Japanese maples. It looks feathery versus the standard Japanese maple shape. It is not a good or bad thing - but there are many cultivars with dissectum leaves. Dissectum leaves because of their feathery nature are a little harder to work with for smaller bonsai trees. They also tend to be a little less sun and heat and dry wind tolerant.

Because most cultivars came from recessive gene expression, they tend to be weaker than generic Japanese maples from nature. That is why, for most grafted trees, the nurseries will use "green Japanese maple" as the rootstock (strong) in order to support the cultivar scion (weak). When I say "weak" some cultivars are weaker/stronger than others. Popular cultivars like 'Bloodgood' (probably the single most popular landscape cultivar) get at least part of their popularity from their strength and relative adaptability. That is why when someone refers to "intermediate in rooting", it could refer to strength of rooting, in general, and/or the likelihood of getting cuttings to root. Some JM cultivars can be propagated by cutting relatively easily... others that are weaker are very difficult if not impossible.