Acer Ginnala styled

[MichaelS]

I hope you don't mind me commenting on this Mach5?

I see you are following the Walter Pall type of styling/shaping branches. That is: shaping and putting movement with the use of wire rather than scissors.
See below.




I have a couple of problems with this technique. PLEASE note, if you don't, disregard this post!

The first problem is that regardless of the amount of twigging that develops along the branch, there will always remain a lack of taper from the base of it to the tip as there is now.
Second, Whether or not you may see this up and down undulation in natural trees, in bonsai the result looks artificial.
Third, the lack of angularity in the main branch structure, gives an impression of youth rather than age and therefore may not harmonise with the trunk and nebari .

For those reasons, I believe that the use of scissors should be employed and much more time taken to develop branches by clipping, growing and only guiding their direction with wire rather than shaping with the wire.
If that technique is to be used you would have to cut off quite a bit. ( something which I understand many would be reluctant to do)

See below.




By doing it like this - That is, cut grow, wire, cut grow wire, you end up with ramification starting further down, angularity which imparts a sense of age, and taper which imparts a good sense of scale.

 

[MACH5]

Very nice, Speed. I've always liked Amur maples - too much to watch it die a slow death in Houston. I'll have to enjoy yours from afar. Great job as always. Do you have anything in the national show?

Thanks Scott! I really like them too and love how tough they are. I suppose these trees need really cold winters to survive long term? Yes I will be showing my beech forest. I also had a Japanese maple in the show, but unfortunately I think I will have to pull that tree out of the exhibit. It was defoliated in early June and for some odd reason it has taken its time in budding back with some branches staying almost dormant. This is the first time I have experienced such a thing and it looks like the tree will not be ready for September. Oh well that's part of the game. I will have to wait and hopefully show it in 2018.

Here are threads for those two trees:

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/japanese-beech-forest.17111/

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/japanese-maple-01.21714/

 

[MACH5]

What a gorgeous tree and your photography is always so excellent.
The carving on that controversial branch looks good . With that branch development, how are you liking your 5 year estimation now?

I was about to ask, how come you are wiring it now in summer but I would guess that's because you defoliated. If you hadn't, I guess it'd be left till fall. (Spot in the newbie in this thread...).
I hope in a few years I can defoliate my maple and same similar success in reducing its leaf size.

Really like the ground cover around the nebari, adds to the overall image. The moss really adds the idea of size to the tree, the imagery of this tree being a big 30ft, 100 year old tree with the moss as its grass and your small Sea Lavanders as 4-5ft trees of their own.

Always a pleasure to read and follow the progress of your trees, and forum threads.

Thanks Conor! Please be careful with defoliation. It is not for every tree and most certainly it needs to be done at the right stage of development. Note that on this tree, I reversed the process and defoliated at the beginning of the developmental stage. I had my own reasons for doing it now but not something that you do or should do at this stage.

I think the 5 year development projection is probably somewhat accurate although I may need to add a bit more to that estimate? Although it may look like it's getting well ramified, many branches will be cut back again. There will be probably a good potion of what I already have that will be gone and redeveloped.

As a side note, I never wire in autumn. This is due to my frigid winters and prefer to work my trees in early spring instead. In warmer areas I think autumn work is fine. There are a lot of opinions on this and experiences vary.

 

[markyscott]

Thanks Scott! I really like them too and love how tough they are. I suppose these trees need really cold winters to survive long term? Yes I will be showing my beech forest. I also had a Japanese maple in the show, but unfortunately I think I will have to pull that tree out of the exhibit. It was defoliated in early June and for some odd reason it has taken its time in budding back with some branches staying almost dormant. This is the first time I have experienced such a thing and it looks like the tree will not be ready for September. Oh well that's part of the game. I will have to wait and hopefully show it in 2018.

Here are threads for those two trees:

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/japanese-beech-forest.17111/

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/japanese-maple-01.21714/

Somehow I missed the forest, Sergio. Very nice grouping. I'm going to try to make it for the show - hope I see you there.

- Scott

 

[MACH5]

I hope you don't mind me commenting on this Mach5?

I see you are following the Walter Pall type of styling/shaping branches. That is: shaping and putting movement with the use of wire rather than scissors.
See below.

View attachment 111986


I have a couple of problems with this technique. PLEASE note, if you don't, disregard this post!

The first problem is that regardless of the amount of twigging that develops along the branch, there will always remain a lack of taper from the base of it to the tip as there is now.
Second, Whether or not you may see this up and down undulation in natural trees, in bonsai the result looks artificial.
Third, the lack of angularity in the main branch structure, gives an impression of youth rather than age and therefore may not harmonise with the trunk and nebari .

For those reasons, I believe that the use of scissors should be employed and much more time taken to develop branches by clipping, growing and only guiding their direction with wire rather than shaping with the wire.
If that technique is to be used you would have to cut off quite a bit. ( something which I understand many would be reluctant to do)

See below.

View attachment 111989


By doing it like this - That is, cut grow, wire, cut grow wire, you end up with ramification starting further down, angularity which imparts a sense of age, and taper which imparts a good sense of scale.

Thanks Michael for the thoughts and comments. I do not mind at all. Please note that I do not consider this tree anywhere near finished or even consider it a bonsai not just yet. The armature I have developed so quickly gives me an idea of the character I want this tree to have. No matter what, a freshly wired tree always looks somewhat artificial. The tree needs time, and as you mentioned, most likely as I progress, much of what I have now will need to be cut back and redeveloped. The design essentially needs time to mature. This has been in creation for just a year and half.

Also note from your virt that the scale is of your branching is very tight. On amur maples the growth is coarser and nowhere near as fine as say tridents for example.

 

[MACH5]

Somehow I missed the forest, Sergio. Very nice grouping. I'm going to try to make it for the show - hope I see you there.

- Scott

That would be great Scott. I look forward to seeing you there!

 

[ConorDash]

Thanks Conor! Please be careful with defoliation. It is not for every tree and most certainly it needs to be done at the right stage of development. Note that on this tree, I reversed the process and defoliated at the beginning of the developmental stage. I had my own reasons for doing it now but not something that you do or should do at this stage.

I think the 5 year development projection is probably somewhat accurate although I may need to add a bit more to that estimate? Although it may look like it's getting well ramified, many branches will be cut back again. There will be probably a good potion of what I already have that will be gone and redeveloped.

As a side note, I never wire in autumn. This is due to my frigid winters and prefer to work my trees in early spring instead. In warmer areas I think autumn work is fine. There are a lot of opinions on this and experiences vary.

Yes I've read about defoliation and how it is not something a beginner should take on, so I don't have plans of doing something like that yet. Just something to look forward to along the journey.

It's becoming more and more evident as I read this topic, of how my eyes just cannot see what most others are seeing here, due to lack of experience. But again, that's another thing to learn and look forward to .

I only thought Autumn is good, based solely on the leaf fall making work easier but based on what @markyscott said and yourself, I can see now that that's a bit of a naive thought. Thanks to you both, that's a good lesson learnt.
I'll simply look forward to cutting back and sorting out my Acer P branch structure in Autumn then wiring in spring, before bud break (making sure not to dislodge buds in the process). I have a feeling my maples branch structure is a bit of a mess! Especially as it is over growing at the moment, due to the whole "ill health, leaf issue" that you know about.

Anyways, look forward to further progression updates in the future .

 

[markyscott]

Yes I've read about defoliation and how it is not something a beginner should take on, so I don't have plans of doing something like that yet. Just something to look forward to along the journey.

It's becoming more and more evident as I read this topic, of how my eyes just cannot see what most others are seeing here, due to lack of experience. But again, that's another thing to learn and look forward to .

I only thought Autumn is good, based solely on the leaf fall making work easier but based on what @markyscott said and yourself, I can see now that that's a bit of a naive thought. Thanks to you both, that's a good lesson learnt.
I'll simply look forward to cutting back and sorting out my Acer P branch structure in Autumn then wiring in spring, before bud break (making sure not to dislodge buds in the process). I have a feeling my maples branch structure is a bit of a mess! Especially as it is over growing at the moment, due to the whole "ill health, leaf issue" that you know about.

Anyways, look forward to further progression updates in the future .

Hi Conor. I wanted to clarify my suggestion. Have a look at this post and this one. Let the spring shoots extend and wire them while they're green. Watch carefully and remove the wire before it cuts in and prune to prevent the branches from becoming too thick. In the late fall just before or shortly after leaf drop, cut back. You can wire at that time too in order to move branches to their final position. But by then branches are full lignified and it is difficult to add movement or change the angle these branches exit the trunk the way you can while they are green. So don't wire last year's growth in the spring before bud break. Wire spring shoots as they extend during active growth.

 

[ConorDash]

Hi Conor. I wanted to clarify my suggestion. Have a look at this post and this one. Let the spring shoots extend and wire them while they're green. Watch carefully and remove the wire before it cuts in and prune to prevent the branches from becoming too thick. In the late fall just before or shortly after leaf drop, cut back. You can wire at that time too in order to move branches to their final position. But by then branches are full lignified and it is difficult to add movement or change the angle these branches exit the trunk the way you can while they are green. So don't wire last year's growth in the spring before bud break. Wire spring shoots as they extend during active growth.

Very interesting reads, thank you.

My maple is rather new (aside from me being new in general), so a lot of it in unknown to me. I wouldn't even know which branches I do intend to extend, keep or cut back, at this point, it also had a bit of a, believe to be, chlorosis problem which I believe it is just recovering from now.
Anyway, I don't want to go in to too much depth because this topic is for Mach's wonderful tree, but I could so happily dive in to discussion on it, as I have in many topics. Enthusiasm for this art is not lacking in me, I can say .

Thank you for your advice on this, and perhaps I'll speak to you again about it in the future . At the moment, I think I have to leave my maple to grow and get healthier after its issue, then in fall I can really assess its structure and actually get an idea for what I want to do. All well and good knowing how to achieve something, what to prune, where, how often etc (of which I'm learning), but I don't even know what I want to achieve yet! .

I'll be keeping those links of yours for reading again in future, thank you!

 

[MACH5]

Fall update. Photographed yesterday, about 48 hours away from fall color peak. By far, this tree is the first one to get into fall spirit while all my Japanese maples are still mostly green. It has a combination of reds, hot pinks and yellows.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Fantastic tree and a great photo to highlight it. Beautiful Sergio.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Everything looking so nice!

 

[ajm55555]

Very, very nice. Since it takes so long to see the final shape of the tree, it's good to see it looking pretty already. Congratulations!

 

[Dav4]

Sweeeeet! Very jealous of the fall color and the overall planting is just plain cool!

 

[MACH5]

Thanks guys! Although I may be projecting a somewhat "finished" image of this tree, it is far from complete. Much work still to be done. As you guys know, it takes time to build a deciduous canopy but I think progressing nicely.

 

[LanceMac10]

Wonderful color!!!!












Still not a fan of the Sea Lavender, though..........

 

[coh]

Beautiful! Does this one always color early like this? Most of my trees are still in the early phase of coloring up, and I'm in a just slightly colder area than you.

 

[whfarro]

From my own limited experience the Amurs tend to color up earlier then the various Japanese Maples. Can't speak to the comparison to Trident's.

 

[Cypress187]

Fall update

Wow, just wow. Really nice.

 

[MACH5]

Beautiful! Does this one always color early like this? Most of my trees are still in the early phase of coloring up, and I'm in a just slightly colder area than you.

Chris, yes but this year it has turned a tad earlier than last. My Japanese maples are just beginning to show some color with some others still completely green. The color on these amur maples are truly spectacular rivaling even the best of the Japanese maples in my opinion. Some of its leaves are even hot pink.