Is Bonsai Mirai Live Worth $300/year?

coh

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I've been a tier 2 member for about 4 months and a tier 3 for the last month or so. I think the tier 2 is definitely worth the price...but not sure about tier 3. I'm probably going to drop back to 2 shortly.

The weekly videos are like being at a top notch demonstration where you can actually see and hear everything that is being done. They've definitely gotten better in terms of the camera work and other technical aspects. My only gripes are with the tier 3 features - certain members tend to monopolize the chat with question after question, and the person who handles the questions and passes them to Ryan (her name is Kendall) often edits and fails to read the full question. Often that changes the context and the answers are less useful than they could be.
 

music~maker

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I have nothing bad to say about his skills in bonsai or horticulture, his artistry, nor his eye for good material.

I can't even say whether I think he's a good teacher for in-person workshops.

What I can say is that the videos that are available for free, which I assume are intended as a sample of the quality of the paid content, are badly edited (if at all), unfocused, rambly, and hard for me to watch. The free videos make him seem like a smart and skilled guy who is a terrible teacher. Hence my question -- are the paid ones better?

Maybe someday, I'll have absorbed all the knowledge that I can get from resources like Bonsai Iligan (RIP), Nigel Saunders, or even Colin Lewis' Craftsy class, and I'll need to turn to Mirai to learn that which I don't yet know. But right now, it seems like learning from him demands more (in my time, and my mental energy) than learning from others.

I haven't subscribed yet (but plan to when I have time to watch the videos), but I have watched a number of Ryan's free videos and at least a stream or two. Yes, he might ramble a little bit , but so do most other good bonsai people I know. And as he's talking, there's a constant stream of bonsai wisdom coming out of his mouth. There are things he just casually rattles off as a side note that took me a decade to arrive at on my own.

I find this entire thread kind of surreal. We're talking about something that costs $15-25/month for wisdom that some guy spent many years and probably tens of thousands of dollars acquiring. I probably spend more in a week on coffee than this costs for a month of access. And every time he's on camera, you get to watch him work while he annotates what he's doing and why. How is this anything but a bargain? There's incredible value in watching somebody who really knows what they're doing work on something and have them explain it to you.

I was out in Seattle a couple weekends ago and got to help Dan Robinson re-pot a very old mountain hemlock (yes, Dan really does re-pot his trees!). Along the way, I got to watch him do some carving. I probably learned more in 30 minutes of watching him carve a trunk than I would have learned in a year or two of reading and experimenting on my own.

So sure, there are other ways to acquire the knowledge that Ryan is charging for, but it's not going to be all conveniently laid out for you in one place. I think the Internet has taught people some bad habits and set some incredible mis-expectations about the value of things. This is how Ryan makes a living, and he seems to be charging pretty reasonable prices for what he's offering, especially considering he's one of the top bonsai artists in the country.

Reminds me of an old joke: A guy has a squeaky floor that he has spent countless hours trying to trouble-shoot, and he finally breaks down and asks a master carpenter over to check it out. Carpenter takes off his shoes, walks around on the floor for a few minutes, identifies the squeaky spot, moves around a bit more to pin point it, then takes out a single nail and hammers it into the floor. Squeak gone.

He then turns to the homeowner and says "that will be $500 please".

The homeowner, flabbergasted, exclaims "$500? For a nail? I'd like you to itemize that please."

So the carpenter takes out a piece of paper and writes the following:

Floor repair:
1 Large Nail - 50 cents
Knowing where to put the nail - $499.50.
Total: $500.


At the end of the day, even at $300 a year, this isn't all that much money if it can potentially shave years off of your learning curve.
 

Adair M

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I have not seen any of Ryan’s videos, but I do know he is very talented. (I have seen some videos of him doing lectures, and demonstrations on YouTube .). And I have met him personally, and he he is very approachable.

$300 is very inexpensive to have access to someone like him for a year. As most of you know, I am a Boon student. I spend more than $300 for just the plane ticket for me to go to Boon’s place! If you can’t get personal instruction, Ryan’s video series is probably the next best thing.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Bjorn doesn’t start doing something similiar.

And folks, Anthony considers himself to be a “Renaissance Man”. Just humour him!
 

parhamr

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@sparklemotion I truly appreciate the thoughtful and specific examples and skepticism you have provided! This thread is markedly improved by your post. Cheers! :)
 

sparklemotion

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Thanks -- it's been illuminating to me to read what others are getting out of their subscriptions. I'm sure that part of my problem is the combination of knowing that I could never commit to being available to watch the streams live, and being really frustrated with watching unedited reruns of live events.

I'm glad to have picked up this hobby in a time when there are so many options for learning. I'm definitely glad that Ryan is around and able to do what he does, I won't pretend that I don't wish he would do some of it differently though :)

I mean... if there is as much good stuff in the streams as people say, then yeah, $300/year is a steal. But the $300 isn't the whole cost for me it's the 2+ hours per week I'd have to invest in listening/watching closely enough that I don't miss the gems through the banter. Which is time away from working, working with my trees, participating in other hobbies, or generally living life.

I'm much more likely to fork out $50/month ($600/year) for a weekly 0.5 hour, well edited and curated, "digest" of the best bits from his sessions, than pay $25/month to take time out of the work day to watch him vamp.
 

milehigh_7

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Thanks -- it's been illuminating to me to read what others are getting out of their subscriptions. I'm sure that part of my problem is the combination of knowing that I could never commit to being available to watch the streams live, and being really frustrated with watching unedited reruns of live events.

I'm glad to have picked up this hobby in a time when there are so many options for learning. I'm definitely glad that Ryan is around and able to do what he does, I won't pretend that I don't wish he would do some of it differently though :)

I mean... if there is as much good stuff in the streams as people say, then yeah, $300/year is a steal. But the $300 isn't the whole cost for me it's the 2+ hours per week I'd have to invest in listening/watching closely enough that I don't miss the gems through the banter. Which is time away from working, working with my trees, participating in other hobbies, or generally living life.

I'm much more likely to fork out $50/month ($600/year) for a weekly 0.5 hour, well edited and curated, "digest" of the best bits from his sessions, than pay $25/month to take time out of the work day to watch him vamp.


Well if they are listening that means there may be a market for the polished and condensed version. Seems like a valid request.
 

Anthony

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Guys,

please, I left the information as another choice for those who could not afford
the videos, or preferred another way.

Not to cause an argument.

I am mostly worried about those who spend a great deal and then realise that
they cannot get back the money.
Good Day
Anthony
 

Giga

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Guys,

please, I left the information as another choice for those who could not afford
the videos, or preferred another way.

Not to cause an argument.

I am mostly worried about those who spend a great deal and then realise that
they cannot get back the money.
Good Day
Anthony

Next time don't call it a sad day or waste or so anti this method. Can't see how you would get money back, it's money well spent in your time and knowledge. Not stocks that pay you dividens
 

Paradox

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I am mostly worried about those who spend a great deal and then realise that
they cannot get back the money.

Dont worry about how other people spend the money they earned. That's on them and its no buisness of yours or anyone else.

Many of us have already spent 100s if not 1000s of $ on trees, tools, pots, soil, etc, not to mention the time put in. If I consider what I get paid an hour for my job then half that because I'm inexperienced in bonsai compared to my real job, that's still another few $1000 at least in time alone.

If a $100 tree dies, you definitely can't get that money back.

$15 a month for a couple of months is nothing compared to what most of us have already spent to give this thing a try.
If they find its not worth it, they can cancel.

This service has been recommended to me by a couple of people. I'll probably give the tier 2 a try this winter so I can watch the old ones too.
 
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choppychoppy

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Guys,

please, I left the information as another choice for those who could not afford
the videos, or preferred another way.

Not to cause an argument.

I am mostly worried about those who spend a great deal and then realise that
they cannot get back the money.
Good Day
Anthony


Look man here's the thing. You need to just realize that the 'information' that you THINK is helpful or good is at best very poor and outdated for 99% of people doing bonsai, and at worst a lot of it is detrimental to a lot of folks. I'm not posting just to harsh your mellow but I do care about the info that people get and I am very actively engaged at bringing people into bonsai every day - and I do so.

Telling folks a good way to start bonsai is to plant seedlings and grow them for 5-10 years before working a tree is just SO VERY WRONG. Not many people have nothing to do and all day to do it most would like to actually try to do something. And you don't have to spend a lot of money either, you have this totally wrong idea that everyone besides you is dropping hundreds and thousands of dollars in pursuit of this hobby. I get beginners into bonsai for under $80 - they get my 4hr community education class thru the small college in town and they go home with a great intro book I make and distribute, a tree that they worked in a training pot, and an invite to our local club. Pretty good deal and people have fun and I get good reviews (mini-toot).

Also this concept of 'getting your money back' is one of the more ridiculous things you have said (and that is really saying a lot). I mean how many dozens of times have you told people to take this art class or that drawing class etc. Is everyone that takes an art class or a hobby related class supposed to become a professional or semi-professional and make money to 'get back' anything they spent. This is nuts. Spending money to learn and enrich yourself isn't about 'getting money back' smh.

For me personally you just don't seem to 'get it' at all when it comes to bonsai. I would suggest you do yourself a big favor and instead of posting 'advice' - just read the forum for a year and only comment on others trees and ask questions. You might actually learn something, I know YOU don't think so but you need it.
 

sorce

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Anthony...

Your posts must be some kind of powerful ....

No one can ignore the information!

I'll do everything on the cheap...

But put an antique pot in my face around tax return season and. ......

Mad love Ant.
I get it.

And your trees look more like trees than some.

Jealous of material things in reverse this....

Mad cuz we can do it free and they cant.

Sorce
 

ghues

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Thanks -- it's been illuminating to me to read what others are getting out of their subscriptions. I'm sure that part of my problem is the combination of knowing that I could never commit to being available to watch the streams live, and being really frustrated with watching unedited reruns of live events.

I'm glad to have picked up this hobby in a time when there are so many options for learning. I'm definitely glad that Ryan is around and able to do what he does, I won't pretend that I don't wish he would do some of it differently though :)

I mean... if there is as much good stuff in the streams as people say, then yeah, $300/year is a steal. But the $300 isn't the whole cost for me it's the 2+ hours per week I'd have to invest in listening/watching closely enough that I don't miss the gems through the banter. Which is time away from working, working with my trees, participating in other hobbies, or generally living life.

I'm much more likely to fork out $50/month ($600/year) for a weekly 0.5 hour, well edited and curated, "digest" of the best bits from his sessions, than pay $25/month to take time out of the work day to watch him vamp.

Welcome to the “Nuthouse”......how about providing your location so that folks could provide you advise that’s specific to you climate.
Your idea of a “readers digest” is a fair comment, basically a summary of the whys, when and how to. Perhaps they will do that if they get enough similar feedback. I’ve watched his seasonal video “in pieces” and found them really helpful and educational.
Perhaps in your quest to learn more about your hobby, you will join a local club? Or go to a convention or local Bonsai show.?
Great to have you here.
Cheers
From the GWN.
 

BillsBayou

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Well, shit. They had a 20% promo code for Labor Day. That's $60 off a Tier 3 subscription.

I've decided to get the Tier 3 subscription from all the positive feedback here. When I tried signing up just now, I saw a box for a promo code. A quick search found one, but it's a month old.

I think I can wait until another promo code comes out. Maybe they'll have a Halloween promo code, or a Black Friday one, or Christmas, or New Years...

It's one thing to decide that you're willing to spend $300 for something, but to find out that last month it was $240? That sucks. $60 is 10-gallons of bonsai soil. Or a nice little pot. Or next year's entry in Reddit's styling competition. Or a bottle of Bruichladdich Islay Barley Scotch.... Hmmm.... I am running low on Scotch... Maybe a Bowmore Darkest... Diurach's Own... Oh, yeah... I'm certain I would enjoy Mirai Live much more with a new bottle of Laphroaig Triple Wood rather than watching sober and thinking about the $60 I could have saved. I shouldn't be a bitter man with chat room access. I'm more of a happy drunk.

That's it. I'm waiting for a promo code.
 

markyscott

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I’m a Tier 2 member. I find great value in the subscription
Well, shit. They had a 20% promo code for Labor Day. That's $60 off a Tier 3 subscription.

I've decided to get the Tier 3 subscription from all the positive feedback here. When I tried signing up just now, I saw a box for a promo code. A quick search found one, but it's a month old.

I think I can wait until another promo code comes out. Maybe they'll have a Halloween promo code, or a Black Friday one, or Christmas, or New Years...

It's one thing to decide that you're willing to spend $300 for something, but to find out that last month it was $240? That sucks. $60 is 10-gallons of bonsai soil. Or a nice little pot. Or next year's entry in Reddit's styling competition. Or a bottle of Bruichladdich Islay Barley Scotch.... Hmmm.... I am running low on Scotch... Maybe a Bowmore Darkest... Diurach's Own... Oh, yeah... I'm certain I would enjoy Mirai Live much more with a new bottle of Laphroaig Triple Wood rather than watching sober and thinking about the $60 I could have saved. I shouldn't be a bitter man with chat room access. I'm more of a happy drunk.

That's it. I'm waiting for a promo code.

Go with the Tier 2 and you can still afford your Laphroig. You can always upgrade to Tier 3 after you’ve finished the bottle and by then you won’t care about the extra $60.

I have a Tier 2 subscription, btw - I find I’ve gotten a lot of value out of my membership. I think the videos are well done and find Ryan to be an excellent and knowledgeable teacher.

Scott
 

Adair M

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I’m a Tier 2 member. I find great value in the subscription


Go with the Tier 2 and you can still afford your Laphroig. You can always upgrade to Tier 3 after you’ve finished the bottle and by then you won’t care about the extra $60.

I have a Tier 2 subscription, btw - I find I’ve gotten a lot of value out of my membership. I think the videos are well done and find Ryan to be an excellent and knowledgeable teacher.

Scott

How many Shiners do you drink while watching an episode?
 
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