Help !! Can it make it ?

[MrBeto]

This is a neglected pine. I got permission to take it out. Will it survive, if I dig it out ? It's been there for 2 years by now. It is suitable for bonsai, repotting ? It has some growth. Or it's dying ?

 

[Vance Wood]

First of all it is not a Pine it is a Juniper, probably one of the desert Junipers and it has been there a lot longer than two years. More like ten. It looks very much like Juniperus Verginiana, spread by bird droppings. You could take it out now but I am not that familiar with these Junipers so I would suggest getting some local opinions and help if you can.

 

[M. Frary]

It's one of those leaverite trees.
Leaverite there.

 

[MrBeto]

Juniper ? I'll be danged. If I'm not mistaken, I remember it had the spiral shape. It's all gone by now. Owner never kept up pruning. Thanks for the advice, I'll pass on this one.

 

[sorce]

Juniper ? I'll be danged. If I'm not mistaken, I remember it had the spiral shape. It's all gone by now. Owner never kept up pruning. Thanks for the advice, I'll pass on this one.

I don't think its J.Crack they use for those spirals.

I like the foliage on Those..

Get it.

Knowledge at least!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

, I'll pass on this one.

Yeah.
Don't waste time on something you will only get frustrated with.

 

[MrBeto]

I don't think its J.Crack they use for those spirals.

I like the foliage on Those..

Get it.

Knowledge at least!

Sorce

Don't know bro. I'll let the neighbor deal with it !

 

[sorce]

Don't know

Find out!

I pulled out a yew about so old(long planted) once and the roots were almost all in the old pot shape.

It died.

My next one lived a little longer...

My next one may live....

But I Will never know unless I try...

One thing I do know...
(besides my neighbor's name is Beto)

If I find one I really really like....

I won't know if It Will live cuz I haven't dug enough crap ones yet!

Plus...
That's not exactly a terrible piece of material. Anything that could take a licken is IMO!

Sorce

 

[Saddler]

Sorce is right, dig up the crap ones to learn how to keep it alive. I wish I had known this before I dug up a beautiful spruce years ago. It was an amazing twin trunk. It died. I'm sad. I wish had done a few practice digs before hand and learned what I need to do. I am going out to dig up a small sugar maple this afternoon before I dig up a couple monsters in a year or two. I don't want the tree I am digging up but if its alive in two years, I'll give it to someone who does want it.

 

[M. Frary]

Sorce is right, dig up the crap ones to learn how to keep it alive. I wish I had known this before I dug up a beautiful spruce years ago. It was an amazing twin trunk. It died. I'm sad. I wish had done a few practice digs before hand and learned what I need to do. I am going out to dig up a small sugar maple this afternoon before I dig up a couple monsters in a year or two. I don't want the tree I am digging up but if its alive in two years, I'll give it to someone who does want it.

Why dig up something to learn on if you never find a good one?
You're just learning how to dig holes.
Also. Why spend time digging up a turd.
To practice on?
Do practicing on cheap nursery stock.

 

[Saddler]

@M. Frary Digging out of the ground to learn how to keep a tree alive after you have dug a tree out of the ground. I've learnt it's one thing to dig a tree up that has been put in the ground to let it thicken and quite another to dig a tree up that is for all intents and purposes, wild. And practice on the top half. Get two birds stoned at once.

 

[M. Frary]

@M. Frary Digging out of the ground to learn how to keep a tree alive after you have dug a tree out of the ground. I've learnt it's one thing to dig a tree up that has been put in the ground to let it thicken and quite another to dig a tree up that is for all intents and purposes, wild. And practice on the top half. Get two birds stoned at once.

Different trees have very different needs at collection.
Why dig up a half dead bush with no good attributes?
Now if you like to waste time,energy,money and space then by all means dig up crappy ones.
Just toss them when you realize you could have been digging up good trees all of the time.
What are years wasted?

 

[M. Frary]

Look at it this way.
Mr. Beto collects this successfully.
It sits there this year trying to recuperate.
If you're doing things right it should sit there another year.
We're 2 years in now and it's still junk.
After that time he goes in the third year and half bareroots it.
Done for that year.
Fourth year comes around. Half bareroot the other side.
Four years down.
During this whole time Mr.Beto is learning things.
Wiring. Styling. What makes a good tree.
Fifth year he goes in to work on it and discovers it's actually a piece of crap and he's just wasted 4 years on nothing.
Then there's the whole "I dug it up to practice on"
He goes at it hard and kills it because in the back of his mind it's only practice material.
What did he learn?
Not a damn thing.
If it's a good piece with potential he won't look at it with the attitude that's it's only practice who cares if it dies.
Good stock to begin with makes him better at bonsai faster than working on pieces of crap.
This is the first Jack pine I ever tried to collect. Never tried those trees before.
I went right for a good one.
Not a practice tree.
This will be it's third year after collection.
All I've done to it in that time was to lop the top off and gently shake some sand off of the roots. Tossed in bonsai soil to fill the voids.
It will be time this year to try to replace more sand and cut some shoots back to induce back budding.
Maybe some wire.
That's three years work.
Next year some more root work.
Then sits another year.
Now. If It was a turd I wouldn't probably have taken my time because its just practice. Right? It would probably be dead by now.
Instead the tree and I are growing and learning all at the same time.
By the time it's presentable I will know everything there is to know about it.
I would be pissed at myself if I had just wasted 10 years on junk just to practice on.
This is what it looks like today. Pretty much the same as at time of collection.
If you're going to collect trees,start with good ones.
It's why we collect trees. We want something good for our efforts.

 

[Saddler]

There is nothing incorrect about what you said. Just missing a few things. Not everybody has the general experience you do. You no a lot more then most about potted trees so you can make good choices in dealing with them, even if you have never dealt with a particular species. That comes with experience and that comes with time and getting your hands dirty. If you have a decent amount of experience, then what you said is a very good way to go, but if you are new to the hobby....
Not everyone values their time the same. Putting four years into a turd and then realizing its a turd will make you more aware of what a turd is in the future. But you will have a turd that might have a special place in your heart lol.

I get into this discussion too often it seems, often on the other side of it. I cook for a living and I tell people they are wasting time making an inferior product with their method, something as simple as a chicken stock, and I forget they sometimes need to learn what not to do before they can learn what they should do.

Anyways, this has been a great conversation and I am getting to the point in my time with bonsai that I feel I can take your advice to heart and I will. Its good advice if you are ready for it.

 

[Vance Wood]

Look at it this way.
Mr. Beto collects this successfully.
It sits there this year trying to recuperate.
If you're doing things right it should sit there another year.
We're 2 years in now and it's still junk.
After that time he goes in the third year and half bareroots it.
Done for that year.
Fourth year comes around. Half bareroot the other side.
Four years down.
During this whole time Mr.Beto is learning things.
Wiring. Styling. What makes a good tree.
Fifth year he goes in to work on it and discovers it's actually a piece of crap and he's just wasted 4 years on nothing.
Then there's the whole "I dug it up to practice on"
He goes at it hard and kills it because in the back of his mind it's only practice material.
What did he learn?
Not a damn thing.
If it's a good piece with potential he won't look at it with the attitude that's it's only practice who cares if it dies.
Good stock to begin with makes him better at bonsai faster than working on pieces of crap.
This is the first Jack pine I ever tried to collect. Never tried those trees before.
I went right for a good one.
Not a practice tree.
This will be it's third year after collection.
All I've done to it in that time was to lop the top off and gently shake some sand off of the roots. Tossed in bonsai soil to fill the voids.
It will be time this year to try to replace more sand and cut some shoots back to induce back budding.
Maybe some wire.
That's three years work.
Next year some more root work.
Then sits another year.
Now. If It was a turd I wouldn't probably have taken my time because its just practice. Right? It would probably be dead by now.
Instead the tree and I are growing and learning all at the same time.
By the time it's presentable I will know everything there is to know about it.
I would be pissed at myself if I had just wasted 10 years on junk just to practice on.
This is what it looks likeView attachment 143474 today. Pretty much the same as at time of collection.
If you're going to collect trees,start with good ones.
It's why we collect trees. We want something good for our efforts.

This tree is still alive? You are doing well. I have known many that have tried to collect Jacks and failed miserably time after time. The one you gave me summer before last is doing well. I am still trying to figure the tree out before I go so far as to repot the tree.

 

[M. Frary]

This tree is still alive?

And kicking!
Growing candles as we speak.

 

[sorce]

Its good advice if you are ready for i

I Realized That too...

I am personally in a transitional phase...

Having just moved from an apartment with no places for differing aftercare....

That advice is golden...
If.you .are. Ready..

I.almost am!

Sorce

 

[Vance Wood]

And kicking!
Growing candles as we speak.

I look forward to seeing it if you bring it this summer. I know a lot of people that have failed with Jack Pine and I hope to work with you to crack this nut.

 

[M. Frary]

I look forward to seeing it if you bring it this summer. I know a lot of people that have failed with Jack Pine and I hope to work with you to crack this nut.

I'll bring it with me.

 

[Adair M]

Look at it this way.
Mr. Beto collects this successfully.
It sits there this year trying to recuperate.
If you're doing things right it should sit there another year.
We're 2 years in now and it's still junk.
After that time he goes in the third year and half bareroots it.
Done for that year.
Fourth year comes around. Half bareroot the other side.
Four years down.
During this whole time Mr.Beto is learning things.
Wiring. Styling. What makes a good tree.
Fifth year he goes in to work on it and discovers it's actually a piece of crap and he's just wasted 4 years on nothing.
Then there's the whole "I dug it up to practice on"
He goes at it hard and kills it because in the back of his mind it's only practice material.
What did he learn?
Not a damn thing.
If it's a good piece with potential he won't look at it with the attitude that's it's only practice who cares if it dies.
Good stock to begin with makes him better at bonsai faster than working on pieces of crap.
This is the first Jack pine I ever tried to collect. Never tried those trees before.
I went right for a good one.
Not a practice tree.
This will be it's third year after collection.
All I've done to it in that time was to lop the top off and gently shake some sand off of the roots. Tossed in bonsai soil to fill the voids.
It will be time this year to try to replace more sand and cut some shoots back to induce back budding.
Maybe some wire.
That's three years work.
Next year some more root work.
Then sits another year.
Now. If It was a turd I wouldn't probably have taken my time because its just practice. Right? It would probably be dead by now.
Instead the tree and I are growing and learning all at the same time.
By the time it's presentable I will know everything there is to know about it.
I would be pissed at myself if I had just wasted 10 years on junk just to practice on.
This is what it looks likeView attachment 143474 today. Pretty much the same as at time of collection.
If you're going to collect trees,start with good ones.
It's why we collect trees. We want something good for our efforts.

Mike, I don't know jack about Jack Pine (sorry, couldn't resist the pun), but if you've had that a couple years and there's no sign of backbudding, then it looks like grafting may be necessary.

And then, looking at the foliage on that tree, if you're going to go to the trouble of grafting, you might as well graft on some prettier foliage.

This tree has JWP foliage on a Lodgepole trunk:



There were two grafts. One is the crown, and the other is the cascading right side branch.