JBP Progress (Help with Design)

[pga7602]

With these, it looks like you are growing out the entire top rather than just 1 sacrifice branch. Is there a reason for that. Also, it looks like you plucked many of the needles on some of leaders up high. Is it better to give full foliage to the top while doing this? The reason I ask, it seems like there are 2 competing theories:
1. grow out sacrifice branch/branches with all foliage to grow as fast and as strong as possible to thicken the trunk and barely keep the lower foliage that will eventually be in the final design alive. or...
2. grow out sacrifice branch but needle pluck on it which will slow the growth, but give more balance to the future tree foliage and allow more light to get to it but slow the trunk growth.

Thoughts?

Good question. The picture is deceiving.. you are actually looking at two trees in different stages. The one on the right is pretty much how I grow it for the first 3 years or so.. since this photo I have cut off the the two big branches right under the growing top. As long as I provide light to the bottom (which i prune back to keep grow close), I let the leader grow for over 6-7 feet high.

As a result, you see the plant on the left side. Close growth to the trunk and lots branching to give me more options. Obviously at this stage I have cut back the leader and letting the scar heal.

What do I gain? FAST TRUNK GROWTH with nice bark. What are the cons? well... you get a nice fat scar Then again, if I did it your other way, It would take me a lot more than 5 years to produce what I have on the left.

Hope that made sense.

 

[MidMichBonsai]

It does. I was asking because I recently picked up a box store Austrian Pine that is extremely vigorous. The apex has 7 or 8 buds swelling with each of the 7 side branches just below it having 3-5 buds. I'm hoping this means that the thing will grow like a weed over the next couple of year.

In your opinion should I let all of this grow out fully while keeping an eye out for shading out the lower foliage?

Also, did you wire up a new leader or simply let a new one grow from near the cut sight?

Thanks.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Thanks for the tips. I do not plan to work on it anymore this year. Can you confirm that I have it right in my picture what you are suggesting? My question is for the first branch. Since it's a new bud of the thicker branch, do I need to slow down that entire large branch to prevent a bulge later on?

Thanks in advance.
View attachment 41779

Yes, that was the suggestion...but again, it will take another year or so before we know if that's a viable course, and it's assuming you're after a shorter tree. Nathan's suggestion nets a taller tree.

Needle plucking the sacrifice branches can be done at anytime between now and spring. I'll do mine in the next month or so.

 

[pga7602]

Here is a quick drawing of what i had in mind. The first branch on the right does not currently exist and if desired would likely require grafting

View attachment 41778

Nathan, attached is a photo of what I think you mean. If I got it correct, then it's time to cut off everything to the left of the new leader so I can't slow down the bulge right? I wont' sacrifice everything on the right until I get more growth on the leader.

 

[nathanbs]

Nathan, attached is a photo of what I think you mean. If I got it correct, then it's time to cut off everything to the left of the new leader so I can't slow down the bulge right? I wont' sacrifice everything on the right until I get more growth on the leader.
View attachment 41783

Exactly correct to my design. As far as cutting i would remove old leader flush to the trunk and seal this winter but leave the approximate 3/4"-1" of trunk there as a stub for the better part of the year, perhaps even next winter to reduce flush to your drawing. As far as whats above or more appropriately to the left of the new leader I would leave that alone this winter maybe only removing some of the lower branches that might shade your new leader. I would leave the bulk of the branch alone for two reasons: 1)to prevent collapse in the trunk as we are already cutting off perhaps 50% of the tree with our old apex removal and 2)the segment between old trunk and new leader could stand a little bit of thickening.

 

[pga7602]

It does. I was asking because I recently picked up a box store Austrian Pine that is extremely vigorous. The apex has 7 or 8 buds swelling with each of the 7 side branches just below it having 3-5 buds. I'm hoping this means that the thing will grow like a weed over the next couple of year.

In your opinion should I let all of this grow out fully while keeping an eye out for shading out the lower foliage?

Also, did you wire up a new leader or simply let a new one grow from near the cut sight?

Thanks.

Do you have a picture of the plant you are talking about? I would hate to give advice base on a description. As you can tell, I can take a pine to a certain point, but after that, I am still learning.

 

[pga7602]

Exactly correct to my design. As far as cutting i would remove old leader flush to the trunk and seal this winter but leave the approximate 3/4"-1" of trunk there as a stub for the better part of the year, perhaps even next winter to reduce flush to your drawing. As far as whats above or more appropriately to the left of the new leader I would leave that alone this winter maybe only removing some of the lower branches that might shade your new leader. I would leave the bulk of the branch alone for two reasons: 1)to prevent collapse in the trunk as we are already cutting off perhaps 50% of the tree with our old apex removal and 2)the segment between old trunk and new leader could stand a little bit of thickening.

I'm actually going to hold off on anymore cuts for another year. I think I already did to much to this tree this year. Thanks again for your help!

 

[nathanbs]

I'm actually going to hold off on anymore cuts for another year. I think I already did to much to this tree this year. Thanks again for your help!

keep an eye on the thickness of the segment below new leader and make sure you keep it from getting as big as the trunk below it. The taper will be critical in your design.

 

[Neli]

There is one thing I would mention here: You need to have a plan. How would you want your tree to look eventually, and have you made a virtual? I know that Japanese wire their branches very early so the tree is given direction while the branches are pliable, and easy to manipulate.
Make sure those little branches coming off near the trunk get adequate light and develop strongly. Bend them as soon as you know what You want the shape to be, it will not affect your pine as much as if you bend them using invasive techniques. Try to ramify them as well for more options. Do not cut off the needles if they look week. And wire off sacrifice branches not to shade them.