Work in Progress: First JBP

[Mithrandir]

Hi All,

Last year I purchased two JBP and as I find the species quite overwhelming and 'scary' compared to Junipers, Elms, etc. So I hedged and decided to just let them grow over the Spring/Summer to see. 11 months later I can see the pro's and cons of doing so -- in some ways, i'm glad I did as observing how this species of tree's grow has helped me plan and when i'm looking at the buds, needles, candles I have an idea what the tree may do. Now that i've built up the courage to start handling these tree's, i'd like some advice.

The main task i want to try and achieve now (late autumn/early winter) is work on the shape of the tree so that in Spring/Summer, the new growth is as targeted as it can be. I've noticed that as the tree is growing taller, it's become leggy in the top third. This might be a sacrifice/leader and that's ok. (the same as the length of the bottom left branch. My intention of the tree is to respect it as much as possible, but learn as much as possible -- i.e. growth cycles and working on developing out the branches for those pads/levels of tiny needles.

Some of the questions I was hoping to get assistance on are:

A) Of the lower-left branches, all three can't stay, however how long (if at all) should I leave 1 and 2 to do their thing? From my understanding, the lower parts of the tree get less of the 'energy' for new growth but should I keep them there to help thicken the trunk or cull them now so branch 3 gets more of it?

B) The main trunk (10), I feel (may be wrong) that the lack of growth between the area of 7,8,9 is too long. Whould I be better off cutting it just above 11, for that to be the new leader? Or perhaps cut back around the level of where '10' is written? hopefully then the buds at 11 will grow to become a more viable 'leader'

C) Growth underneath branches. Is it worth-while plucking those needs off now to focus growth on top of the branch where we want it?

Apologies for the quality of the photo, the angle isn't perhaps the best either. There is plenty of budding around the 'blue box' which i'm confident of getting a near 'rear' branch.

 

[Thomas J.]

It really needs to thicken up before any serious work is done, but then you probably already knew that.
I would for sure put it in a colander or large pond basket also to help with the growth and if you do that you might want to unwrap the wire on the trunk and re wire it looser because that trunk will start thickening quite easily in the pond basket and for sure keep up with your fertilizing program.

 

[Mithrandir]

It really needs to thicken up before any serious work is done, but then you probably already knew that.
I would for sure put it in a colander or large pond basket also to help with the growth and if you do that you might want to unwrap the wire on the trunk and re wire it looser because that trunk will start thickening quite easily in the pond basket and for sure keep up with your fertilizing program.

Thanks, mate.

Yeah -- definitely know that is the case. Not expecting anything within the next few years just found with a larger pine that I have, it became very unruly, very quick! I should have (but didn't) make a decision on a larger pine I had about the 'wheel' of branches it had developed and am now in a position where there was a lot of undesirable growth, but learnt a lot in watching how it grows, etc. A trade-off but as you (or the other post that seems to have disappeared) called out -- it's all about the timing! This ones got a lot of growth and many years ahead. We're in early winter now and i've noticed both of them have slowed down and definitely planned to unwire before spring.

WHen i move next year in to my own place, I'll have plenty of room to grow these however in the mean time, trying to get hands-on and familiar with how they grow and the timing.

If i may ask, with regards to the top of the tree, is there a way to prevent the long-legged growth like between the 11 and 10 markers? I may be wrong, but i'm guessing it was due to my mis-management of the candles? If not, are you able to offer any advice as to how to avoid the long sections of no growth? Obviously, besides plucking needles off

 

[Thomas J.]

are you able to offer any advice as to how to avoid the long sections of no growth? Obviously, besides plucking needles off

No I wish I did as I had a nice double trunk JBP that I grew from seed shown in the pic below and although it looks like it doesn't have a problem branch wise it really did with a huge gap between the upper and lower branches. I finally threw in the towel after waiting a few more years and just cut it down to the stump where I was lucky enough to have plenty of growth going on. Maybe somebody else has a miracle remedy for this other than doing some grafts but I don't think so.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I'm not the ''pine guy'' there are a couple others that are able to give you the ''program'' better than I can. @Adair M ?

However, in case the ''Pine guys'' are busy I will offer this,

For seedlings this young, you need a thicker trunk. The only way to get a thicker trunk is let the apex grow out as a sacrifice. If it were mine, I would plan on branches 1 or 3 or 4 as the future tree, the rest is sacrifice, to bulk up your trunk, Bend the tall trunk to the right in the photo, so that branches one through 4 are in full sun all day. Make sure the segment 10 thru 11, is bent to the vertical. So that it will behave like the main trunk rather than a horizontal branch. Sort of a zig-zag then back to upright, like a country road, jogging right to avoid a lake or something.

Key is keep these first few branches healthy, in full sun, without shading from above branches. You can candle prune these next year to get more back budding on these branches. Don't needle pluck as you need the dormant buds between the needles in the needle bundle. But only these branches will be your tree, maybe only one of the four. Now is too early to choose. You have a few years of growing to do.

This of course is advice for developing a short, shohin to medium size tree with dramatic taper between the trunk and the branches. There are other ways to do other styles. See some of @0soyoung and @bonhe threads on developing pines from seed. Also Eric Schrader's blog, http://www.phutu.com/ look for his 11 year progression on pines from seed. I think it is titled 6 years, but he kept updating for at least 11 years.

Make sense?

 

[Mithrandir]

I'm not the ''pine guy'' there are a couple others that are able to give you the ''program'' better than I can. @Adair M ?

However, in case the ''Pine guys'' are busy I will offer this,

For seedlings this young, you need a thicker trunk. The only way to get a thicker trunk is let the apex grow out as a sacrifice. If it were mine, I would plan on branches 1 or 3 or 4 as the future tree, the rest is sacrifice, to bulk up your trunk, Bend the tall trunk to the right in the photo, so that branches one through 4 are in full sun all day. Make sure the segment 10 thru 11, is bent to the vertical. So that it will behave like the main trunk rather than a horizontal branch. Sort of a zig-zag then back to upright, like a country road, jogging right to avoid a lake or something.

Key is keep these first few branches healthy, in full sun, without shading from above branches. You can candle prune these next year to get more back budding on these branches. Don't needle pluck as you need the dormant buds between the needles in the needle bundle. But only these branches will be your tree, maybe only one of the four. Now is too early to choose. You have a few years of growing to do.

This of course is advice for developing a short, shohin to medium size tree with dramatic taper between the trunk and the branches. There are other ways to do other styles. See some of @0soyoung and @bonhe threads on developing pines from seed. Also Eric Schrader's blog, http://www.phutu.com/ look for his 11 year progression on pines from seed. I think it is titled 6 years, but he kept updating for at least 11 years.

Make sense?

Thanks, yeah it does.

I was trawling the web last night and found some really good resources that show it in stages, etc. I also watched some presentations on YouTube, the guys name was Ryan Neil? Anyway I found it was really interesting to think about it in cycles, etc. I got a lot out of the presentation...it was about an hour in total.

Would it be more beneficial to focus on retaining the 2nd flush growth on the branches that are keepers and let the sacrificial leader/branches do their thing?

 

[Adair M]

Also, Jonas’ blog www.bonsaitonight.com has tons of great information with great pictures on developing JBP.