Prospects

[Gatesy]

I was out looking to pick up some pine cones to try to gather some seeds. Mainly because I was bored and needed to kill some time so I was just walking across the highway and I happened across these trees.

Any comments?

I really like the first one just because of how it looks. I'm guessing what happened is the highway department came through to mow and just took the top of the tree off and that's whats left of it.
The other two were just in the general area and they caught my eye. I also learned my lesson to set something to mark them because I left and came back and it took me about 15 minutes to find them again.
To make it funnier, I set my stuff down because I got tired of carrying it while I looked. Then I went to check the area.
I couldn't find them and got really annoyed. So I just went back to my stuff and looked over to see the trees were about 5 feet off to the side of where I set me stuff down......idiot.

I just posted it and realized the order is reversed. So the third one is "the first one"

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Think bigger...

 

[Poink88]

Think bigger...

^^^ What he said.

It is easier to make a nice bonsai from a bigger stock than grow one from a small plant. But if you really want to go this longer route, then it is fine too.

 

[rockm]

Think A LOT bigger...These aren't worth the time.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

The first photo isn't a pine. It is a Virginia Juniper or red cedar as they are called around here.

 

[travislivid]

In my rookie opinion collecting trees is an art that is only learned through many mistakes. Well at least for me. "think bigger" no doubt. But that is totally relative to your ability to collect a tree and keep it alive....... and how big of a tree you are willing to kill!
If you know what you are doing then think much bigger.
Last year I learned some VERY valuable lessons for a first year collecting and started out with small trees of the species I really wanted to collect. I am glad I did because I killed quite a few.
I think they were totally worth the effort to learn what I was doing and figure out how to keep the better stuff alive. I killed quite a few 1/2" trunk or less trees at first. I think digging techniques alone don't come until the first few trees are dug without enough roots.
It was all worth it because all but 1 of the trees I collected later over 2 Inch trunks have survived and are doing great.
This year I am planning on working with the ashe juniper we have here in Central Texas. They are alot more difficult then the Cedar Elms I collected last year. Dug a few 1/2" sized trees around the house just to figure out the root/soil/watering requirements.

I say these look like great little trees to work with. Especially since they are just destined to be highway department mulch.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Bigger doesn't necessarily mean easier to kill. In fact, the margin of error is larger with bigger trees in general. Truth is, I'd rather take a risk collecting something great than settle for mediocre material that's sure to live.

 

[travislivid]

I agree don't dig something up that has absolutely no value. Just don't make all of your mistakes on the best trees you can find.
Maybe find something that has some potential and start there.
I just think that the better the potential the more planning.
But you are right. No need to break a sweat on a stick for a pot!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I agree don't dig something up that has absolutely no value. Just don't make all of your mistakes on the best trees you can find.
Maybe find something that has some potential and start there.
I just think that the better the potential the more planning.
But you are right. No need to break a sweat on a stick for a pot!

I agree with this, except what's bolded and underlined. I'm only interested in working on the best trees I can find. Looking back, not starting there may have been my biggest mistake...wasting time on mediocre material.

Look at most beginners here, and compare the trees they post to what poink88 is working with. In 5 years, they will start considering their first big spend/dig, and poink is going to have some impressive, nearly finished bonsai. Why not start there if that's where you're headed anyway?

 

[Poink88]

I agree with this, except what's bolded and underlined. I'm only interested in working on the best trees I can find. Looking back, not starting there may have been my biggest mistake...wasting time on mediocre material.

Look at most beginners here, and compare the trees they post to what poink88 is working with. In 5 years, they will start considering their first big spend/dig, and poink is going to have some impressive, nearly finished bonsai. Why not start there if that's where you're headed anyway?

Thank you Brian, that may be the biggest compliment I've ever gotten (bonsai wise).

I agree about getting the best you can and I am trying to educate other newbies like me in my own little way. Best part is, they can be free!

That said, I also agree with Travis...but I learn mostly by research/reading/asking questions about the trees needs before the dig (no need to re-invent the wheel)...not by trial on smaller trees (we all learn differently though). There sure are little nuances you need to fine tune for your own condition but the main information are available out there...especially if you can find someone local to help/advise you. Note also to observe the tree. Not all plants will respond the same way...even those collected the same day, same site, same species, etc. I have some that are just surviving...while others from same batch have been manipulated several times already and they seem not to care and just keep growing.

 

[Matt1]

I personally like the first photo of the three. for me size does not matter, unless I am going for a bigger tree design. If I like the tree that is really all that matters. You have inspired me to go out in to the wood this weekend and see what I can find.

 

[rockm]

"I agree with this, except what's bolded and underlined. I'm only interested in working on the best trees I can find. Looking back, not starting there may have been my biggest mistake...wasting time on mediocre material. "

Well, this can be a blessing and a curse. I'd rather work on material that's ALIVE and learn how to keep it that way before moving on to the "best" specimens I've located.

This can be a sliding scale, if the plants in question are in danger of being destroyed or are otherwise in a perishable place or state.

However, most of the better material I've worked with wasn't collected in my first few years in getting the hang of collecting. I dug similar-sized material BESIDE the best trees I had scouted out. I grew that material for a few years before moving on to the better stuff.

The reasoning is the better stuff ain't going to be replicated any time soon. Killing great trees with newbie overenthusiam may seem satisfying in a "balls to the wall" kind of approach, but down the road it's not the best way to get good trees. Those really good dead trunks come back to haunt you. Collect a while, see how you feel ten or fifteen years from now when you have a pile of really nice trunks in the compost pile, like I have.

 

[Poink88]

This can be a sliding scale, if the plants in question are in danger of being destroyed or are otherwise in a perishable place or state.

In most of mine, it is basically decided for me by this. Usually a now or never situation.

 

[Vance Wood]

I personally like the first photo of the three. for me size does not matter, unless I am going for a bigger tree design. If I like the tree that is really all that matters. You have inspired me to go out in to the wood this weekend and see what I can find.

The reason for starting with seeds or seedlings is to provide a source for material that may not be available any other way. If you are coming at bonsai from the point of view, or belief, that trees are grown up into bonsai you are going to be disappointed and relatively soon. A good bonsai, with the exception of the Literatti style, all have fairly beefy trunks. This adds the illusion of age and perspective in a small tree. This is usually achieved by cutting down a larger tree into a smaller tree. What you wind up with is a large trunk on a small tree. This cannot be achieved in any kind of reasonable time span using seed culture or young seedlings.

This does not mean you shouldn't use this source of material but you should know that by the time you have a tree capable of becoming a decent bonsai your grandchildren will be graduating from high school, if you are a young person, or you will be looking at your own demise.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Collect a while, see how you feel ten or fifteen years from now when you have a pile of really nice trunks in the compost pile, like I have.

Been collecting every year for nearly 20 years, killed plenty of nice trunks along the way, which is simply part of it. I hate they didn't make it, but I don't regret trying to get the best I could find. On the other hand, I also don't have rows of mediocre junk cluttering my benches consuming time and space, collected just because they were sure to live.

 

[travislivid]

Yeah, I am not saying spend the next few years digging up smaller trees and passing on the good stuff. I am saying if it is your first season or first tree. But hey if the bulldozer is near go for the big one! I did.
I am just glad I spent last season in trial and error mode. I have been planning all year on the BEST trees I found last year and did not dig as a total rookie.
Now this year after I have collected the best I spotted last year I will only be spending my time digging up the best I can find since I have a handle on it.
Can't wait.

 

[SlowMovingWaters]

The first photo isn't a pine. It is a Virginia Juniper or red cedar as they are called around here.

It could also be a Balsam Fir or Tamarack if those are native.

 

[rockm]

"On the other hand, I also don't have rows of mediocre junk cluttering my benches consuming time and space, collected just because they were sure to live."

Neither do I. That material doesn't have to sit around being "mediocre". I've sold the collected stock that I practiced on. Wasn't looking to make money on it and it's gone on to people that appreciate it. Since it is collected material, it's not really mediocre and still a notch above what's available at nurseries...