Trident trunk is built...now what?

[fredman]

Hi Everyone.
I would love some help and input from you.
Its mid winter here now...and i'm itching
I've been building this Trident trunk for the last 7 or so years. Now its time for branch placements....and that side of bonsai is somewhat new to me.
I'm in two minds how to proceed with this one. I've let one branch grow last year and wired down and around...for future grafts. Now i'm wondering if its not better to just remove the branch and wait for it to pop....and go from there.
The tree is very healthy and I expect enough shoots come spring.
Also, its been in this big(ish) container for 2 years. Shall I trim the roots and replant in a shallower one, or leave it another year...to make sure enough shoots pop?

 

[fredman]

Also plz feel free to have a dab as to where you see the main branches...as i'm at this stage a bit overwhelmed by that to...but i'll get there

 

[Gabler]

Unless you plan to graft every branch, you don't get to pick where the branches will go. They grow wherever the tree wants them. To increase the number of branches you'll have to choose from, you should allow the tree to grow unrestrained for a full year to build up lots of energy reserves, and then chop it back hard immediately before it leafs out in the spring to force it to backbud.

I have to ask, though. How did you get to the point that you have a tree with no branches? In seven years, I'd expect you to have lots of branches to work with, yet you have just a few in odd places. Is the tree not back budding when you chop it?

 

[fredman]

Unless you plan to graft every branch, you don't get to pick where the branches will go. They grow wherever the tree wants them. To increase the number of branches you'll have to choose from, you should allow the tree to grow unrestrained for a full year to build up lots of energy reserves, and then chop it back hard immediately before it leafs out in the spring to force it to backbud.

I have to ask, though. How did you get to the point that you have a tree with no branches? In seven years, I'd expect you to have lots of branches to work with, yet you have just a few in odd places. Is the tree not back budding when you chop it?

That's what I meant by branch placements are new to me. Up to now i've concentrated on growing trunks. I figured i'll learn the next steps later...and suddenly now i'm there.
The top is chopped so there's a lot of energy stored. It'll bud enough come spring to make a start.

 

[fredman]

I have to ask, though. How did you get to the point that you have a tree with no branches? In seven years, I'd expect you to have lots of branches to work with, yet you have just a few in odd places. Is the tree not back budding when you chop it

TBH I can't remember. I suppose it did grow side branches while in the ground and pots. I never kept them as I was concentrating on the taper. The one branch was kept to do grafts...but now i'm contemplating another route....start from scratch and build as I go.
I do have a new leader for the canopy and one that can work a top branch...maybe.

 

[Shibui]

Branches is just a matter of waiting till the trunk buds up in spring then selecting those in likely looking places to retain and grow while removing any that are clearly not needed.
It is not unusual to end up with a trunk with few or no branches after grow and chop. If you do end up with branches after ground growing they are usually thick and straight with long internodes so rarely any use to develop branches. I nearly always start with fresh buds that will develop pliable shoots that can be wired into desired positions while still flexible. Even then most will still have long internodes thanks to the strong growth after trunk chop so most developing shoots are again chopped after initial spring burst to get slower grown shoots.

There's probably a few ways to develop branches depending how it grows in spring.
Usually I will:

• Wait for buds.
• Choose well placed shoots to retain, remove badly placed while they are still very small.
• Wire new shoots while base is still flexible to get good trunk/branch angles. Only need to wire the first few inches as most will be chopped later.
• Allow shoots to grow to thicken the developing branches. Probably grow all season. Make sure wires are removed before they damage the branches.
• Chop new branches back to 1 or 2 nodes next winter.
• Repeat grow, wire.

At some stage, depending how the branches are developing and thickening I start trimming mid season to speed up ramification development.

I would leave the existing branch for now. New buds are usually prolific but Murphy's law applies so likely that they will not be where you most want them and that branch may be useful to graft.

I have not found that root pruning stops or even slows budding. Usually the opposite - trees that have not been repotted for a while get slow and don't bud as well. I would certainly have no problem with repotting this winter but probably not into a shallow pot. The tree still needs several years of good growth to heal the remaining scars and grow the new branches.
Time to reduce pot size when you are on the final phase of branch ramification to assist restrained growth to help with compact internodes..

 

[fredman]

Thanks heaps mate. Been hoping you'd chime in
I'm going to remove the branch and start a fresh.
I'll build it a nice new box for the second stage of our journey.

 

[Dmvbonsai]

Looks good

 

[jason biggs]

the trunk looks great - interesting taper you have created...

 

[luvinthemountains]

@Shibui can I say you are an invaluable resource on this site. You have a wealth of knowledge that you often do not hesitate to share generously. Thank you!

 

[fredman]

Thanks

Looks good

the trunk looks great - interesting taper you have created...

Thank you.
Yeah the taper is great...very proud of myself. Its my first Trident I grew this way.
Needless to say i'm overly exited about the next stage of developing it. I want to take my time and do it right.

 

[BonsaiDTLA]

Thanks


Thank you.
Yeah the taper is great...very proud of myself. Its my first Trident I grew this way.
Needless to say i'm overly exited about the next stage of developing it. I want to take my time and do it right.

Is there a progression thread on this trident showing you building the trunk? If so, I must have missed it--please share if available.

I really like what you've done so far! Great job!

 

[Vincent Tanner]

@Shibui can I say you are an invaluable resource on this site. You have a wealth of knowledge that you often do not hesitate to share generously. Thank you!

I think this all the time. I sometime spend my evenings searching random topics on the forum and reading old threads. Sometimes threads from years ago. I always find @Shibui and @Leo in N E Illinois offering tons of great info. (Among many others!)

 

[fredman]

Is there a progression thread on this trident showing you building the trunk? If so, I must have missed it--please share if available.

I really like what you've done so far! Great job!

Frustratingly No. I just went through all my phone photos and only found one. I can't believe I was soooo slack on this one.
I grew this from seed and then planted it in the ground on a tile. Basically I let it grow and chopped it sometimes yearly and other times after two years....depending on the growth. Each time let the new leader grow at a new angle. After time it tells you where it wants to grow to.
Have to add...I only had it in the open ground for the first year. After that I used big flat plastic containers....sides drilled full of holes....filled with bonsai soil. I still used a tile or wood for the roots to sit on....inside the container.
Also something I did is some years I wouldn't put the container in the ground. I figured leaving it will help with growing the finer roots...because of the holes around it.
Here's the pic of it in the container.


There are others here way more experienced at growing on Tridents. This is just how I did it. @Shibui grows hundreds and is a master at it. I'm sure he'll be willing to add some valuable advise...should you want to PM him.
In fact I would love it if he highjacks this thread and put up a progression in growing taper on a Trident.

 

[Marco B]

First thing you got to do is healing wounds…

 

[fredman]

First thing you got to do is healing wounds…

TBH that don't concern me at all. Healing wounds is a consequence of growth. I've been astonished by this tree how quickly big wounds can heal on Tridents...especially with course growth in the ground.
It will heal slower now, but I prefer it that way.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I've been building this Trident trunk for the last 7 or so years.

Really nice job. Kudos.

 

[Marco B]

TBH that don't concern me at all. Healing wounds is a consequence of growth. I've been astonished by this tree how quickly big wounds can heal on Tridents...especially with course growth in the ground.
It will heal slower now, but I prefer it that way.

True, they are healing fast, but you have to grow branches above freely, like this on my trident

 

[fredman]

True, they are healing fast, but you have to grow branches above freely, like this on my tridentView attachment 493999

Beautiful tree mate. That's exactly how I healed some big ones on this tree. The remaining ones will be healed that way to...by growing out top and side branches.