Pinus Rigida (Pitch Pine) #116

Orion_metalhead

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Location
Central NJ
USDA Zone
7a
Pine grown from seed collected in NY. Second or third year of growth. Looks healthy. Thinking of repotting into this nicer pot next year. The left branch is a sacrifice. There are several nice lower branches to develop in future.

Current:
IMG_20211231_132049.jpg

Close up of inner branches:
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Pot for next year:
20211231_132212.jpg
 
Good little tree however Bonsai pot last thing needed IF wanting ANY bigger trunk.
 
You know me. I'm in no rush for trunk thickness. In pot, trees seem to grow 1/8" - 1/4" a year in thickness. I'm ok with that slower growth.
 
You know me. I'm in no rush for trunk thickness. In pot, trees seem to grow 1/8" - 1/4" a year in thickness. I'm ok with that slower growth.
Personally do not see this as true on personal trees even with some sacrifice present growing even in growing pots. If even 1/16" a year Bristlecone would be 2 1/2" instead of 1 3/8" after 26 years or so.
 
Well, I measure the trees at the end of each year and have been cataloguing the trunk width so it's true for many of my trees.
 
Btw, if anyone wants visibility to my data, just pm me your email address and I'll share the google sheet with you.
 
That’s a cool little tree. Not to hijack the thread but how are rigida treated these days? General consensus a few years back was that these were legit double flush pines but then I heard Ryan Neil bringing that into question on one of his podcasts. How will you proceed with this tree? Decandle or just candle prune and bud select? I have a couple very nice yamadori from here in Maine and I like to not screw them up.
 
With respect to your tree going into the pot you selected, I can’t see how that would be at all detrimental to the tree in its current state as the pot shown is a good bit larger than the current plastic container. Good luck!
 
That’s a cool little tree. Not to hijack the thread but how are rigida treated these days? General consensus a few years back was that these were legit double flush pines but then I heard Ryan Neil bringing that into question on one of his podcasts. How will you proceed with this tree? Decandle or just candle prune and bud select? I have a couple very nice yamadori from here in Maine and I like to not screw them up.
You'll have to tell me where your secret spots are, I've been looking for a good one to collect
;)

Edit: regarding single/double flush - I think length of the growing season could play a role. We'd probably be safer treating it as a single flush here in Maine - but I don't have the experience or data to back that up, and experimentation would be warranted.
 
You'll have to tell me where your secret spots are, I've been looking for a good one to collect
;)

Edit: regarding single/double flush - I think length of the growing season could play a role. We'd probably be safer treating it as a single flush here in Maine - but I don't have the experience or data to back that up, and experimentation would be warranted.
I’m out in Lovell, maybe we can go for a hike come spring

The pots were just what I had around that I could fit the entire root systems into. They’ll be put into something more fitting in a year or two.

*edit for typo
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Nice trees!

Plans for now are just to let grow and thicken. I may do some light wiring here and there but the seedlings I have are not ready for refinement work.

@Tidal Bonsai has good experience with Rigida. He should be able to give you some advice on how to treat candles and growth.
 
That’s a cool little tree. Not to hijack the thread but how are rigida treated these days? General consensus a few years back was that these were legit double flush pines but then I heard Ryan Neil bringing that into question on one of his podcasts. How will you proceed with this tree? Decandle or just candle prune and bud select? I have a couple very nice yamadori from here in Maine and I like to not screw them up.

This may be long, but I think it will help a lot of people with this species that I have developed a special relationship with.

I have been working with pitch pine here in coastal NJ (7A) for the past 4 seasons. Previously, I had advocated for treating them the way that Ryan Neil does, but over time I have seen some issues with this particular species. For those who do not know, Ryan Neil advocates fertilizing pines heavily with nitrogen in the early spring, and withholding nitrogen fertilizer a month before decandling to get small needles and small internodes. For three years, I saw vigorous spring growth at the tips followed by less than desired development in the fall. After decandling this way for three seasons, year after year I saw that there was increasingly less backbudding, and only one bud at the end of each tip come fall. Last year especially, the needles looked skinny, light in color, and frail. I decided to give my pitch pines a year off after seeing this. You can kind of see what I’m talking about here.
F71E7DEA-CF14-4989-B618-26DD2E94532D.jpegA3CAC121-F59F-4DDE-9515-7A492DBD55C0.jpeg
This past season, I changed my strategy because one tree was getting re-potted and the other was getting a massive overhaulI. I treated them similar to Japanese white pine where they cut extending candles to a similar size, cut out overly strong buds in whorls of 3+, and withheld fertilizer until the late summer/fall. I noticed a longer needle size, but a vastly increased vigor, darker green needle color, more back budding and multiple buds as the tips.

You can see the difference from the pictures below.
DB5CB14C-1025-49D0-971B-DABFBCAF7A05.jpeg3082A010-0EDE-4CB0-9441-162B4494D6EC.jpeg
The first tree was before It was restyled, pictures will be posted after the apex develops more this season. It is a vast improvement, but it needs one more season before a closeup 😂

I kind of ate my words on previous posts, but this is where I am at currently. I am probably going to experiment with decandling the way that some local hobbyists, and I believe Jonas D. follows where you lightly apply fertilizer after decandling since I feel like that will give me the results I am after. My continued learning will be posted in my pitch pine threads, this is an amazing native that I really like working with!
 
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Wow! Great information, thanks so much for taking the time to put that post together. I’m finding it pretty difficult to find info on this species and it seems like it just hasn’t been explored enough yet. I personally love it and I think it has great potential once we all play around with it enough to hammer out a decent care and propagation regimen. I’ll look for your pitch pine thread.
 
For what it’s worth I have Pitch pine as well , along with a shortleaf pine.
My experience with pitch pine at the studio and in my own collection is this- we treat similar to techniques on Japanese black pine. And fertilize heavily up until candle pruning .. after which I apply light fertilizer to keep it going once fall happens and it’s time to shoot select. I’ve also had similar experiences with Short leaf pine even with critters gnawing on bark.. new buds form at broken candles and even with my own error buds popped all over my shirt leaf pine. The. Fertilize up till fall.
 
Is there a general information thread for pitch pine? If not, there should be. I had scoured the web for PP info and have read more in the last few days on this post than I had anywhere for the previous couple years.
 
Is there a general information thread for pitch pine? If not, there should be. I had scoured the web for PP info and have read more in the last few days on this post than I had anywhere for the previous couple years.
Ya check back in ze spring I am collecting pitch pine, and will be working on one in the studio and will document techniques as they progress
 
Is there a general information thread for pitch pine? If not, there should be. I had scoured the web for PP info and have read more in the last few days on this post than I had anywhere for the previous couple years.

There is sparse info here on BNut, at least one segment on Mirai Live where Ryan says to treat them like JBP, and the other is the book North American Bonsai where they say to treat them like JBP 😂. The author, Martin Schmalenberg lives in NJ also and was the guy that sold Ryan the pitch pine he used on Mirai live. I have not met him yet, but I would love to pick his brain. He isn’t on social media to my knowledge.

Just like @Shogun610 and I said, decandling might be a good technique for them, but I am going to experiment with light fert. after decandling to not weaken the tree past what is desirable. I made a separate thread with the info I posted, maybe others can add their findings.

 
I want to find a more developed piece of material... I may also plant some of my seedlings in the ground at my place in PA for a few years.
 
There is sparse info here on BNut, at least one segment on Mirai Live where Ryan says to treat them like JBP, and the other is the book North American Bonsai where they say to treat them like JBP 😂. The author, Martin Schmalenberg lives in NJ also and was the guy that sold Ryan the pitch pine he used on Mirai live. I have not met him yet, but I would love to pick his brain. He isn’t on social media to my knowledge.

Just like @Shogun610 and I said, decandling might be a good technique for them, but I am going to experiment with light fert. after decandling to not weaken the tree past what is desirable. I made a separate thread with the info I posted, maybe others can add their findings.

Is the pitch pine episode on Mirai behind the pay wall or is it out in the public domain now?
 
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