Black thumb with cuttings

[Mad Tabby]

I don’t know what I do wrong. It’s why I never tried things like air layering. But even the easiest plants like African violets or jades, just rot instead of developing roots.

I usually use Roots brand hormone simply because it’s the one that’s available. I’ve tried water with plastic wrap to keep the leaf out of the water, the Jiffy peat pots, seed starter soil. Sun, shade, but no matter what, I always end up with a mushy glob where I was hoping for roots. My brother has been no help since he’s never had a problem. Seems every broken branch roots for him.

So I come on here, and get green with envy when I see people who seem to be capable of stuffing a stick in a pot and seeing buds within a month.

I looked through and found lots of threads on specific species but not a general how to thread.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Mate, I've done plant tissue culture for years. I've struck over 140K micro cuttings in the lab, every year. I've done more than 5K cuttings at home.
And there are just some plants that I can't work with.
Others root junipers like they're strawberries, in my case half of my air layers even fail. And I know from a scientific standpoint, I know how to root things succesfully. I know the pathways, I know the chemistry and biology, and still it works for some plants and not for others.

One major factor in my case is wood lice. I can't get rid of them and they keep eating all my plants callus tissue. So every time they try to root, the roots get eaten. The munch marks are there, otherwise I wouldn't have believed it.

Let us know what species you want to try next, maybe start a new thread and we can try to help you get better results. Or maybe not because we suck at things as well sometimes!

 

[Gabler]

I have a low success rate with cuttings, so I tend to make lots of them, and I can sometimes get a few to root. I'm pretty sure the issue is that I'm keeping them too wet. The problem is that I'm away from home most of the day, and if I water too little, then the cuttings dry out, and all of them die, so I'm working on finding the optimal balance.

If your cuttings are turning to mush, then it sounds like you have the same problem that I do. I suggest spraying your cuttings with hydrogen peroxide solution to combat fungus and bacteria before you dip them in hormone, and I suggest you use a sterile rooting medium like vermiculite. I've had more success with extra-coarse vermiculite than anything else.

 

[Mad Tabby]

Mate, I've done plant tissue culture for years. I've struck over 140K micro cuttings in the lab, every year. I've done more than 5K cuttings at home.
And there are just some plants that I can't work with.
Others root junipers like they're strawberries, in my case half of my air layers even fail. And I know from a scientific standpoint, I know how to root things succesfully. I know the pathways, I know the chemistry and biology, and still it works for some plants and not for others.

One major factor in my case is wood lice. I can't get rid of them and they keep eating all my plants callus tissue. So every time they try to root, the roots get eaten. The munch marks are there, otherwise I wouldn't have believed it.

Let us know what species you want to try next, maybe start a new thread and we can try to help you get better results. Or maybe not because we suck at things as well sometimes!

Thanks. I’ve been eyeballing a juniper in the park. Can’t air layer it, because it’s the park. But a little snip? You should see some of the poor trees the deer have destroyed.

Maybe I’ll just wait for the berries to turn purple.

But I did mean this as more general since, as I said, I can find specific species in the forums. Jade & African violets are supposed to be “just take a leaf, stick it in the ground, and away they go.” I know my brothers jade drops leaves & they root, but here I am with black mush.

 

[Mad Tabby]

I have a low success rate with cuttings, so I tend to make lots of them, and I can sometimes get a few to root. I'm pretty sure the issue is that I'm keeping them too wet. The problem is that I'm away from home most of the day, and if I water too little, then the cuttings dry out, and all of them die, so I'm working on finding the optimal balance.

If your cuttings are turning to mush, then it sounds like you have the same problem that I do. I suggest spraying your cuttings with hydrogen peroxide solution to combat fungus and bacteria before you dip them in hormone, and I suggest you use a sterile rooting medium like vermiculite. I've had more success with extra-coarse vermiculite than anything else.

Thank you! Hydrogen peroxide? I usually use alcohol to sterilize stuff (I think the liquor store guy is worried about the amount of Everclear I buy) but is there a reason to go with hydrogen peroxide over alcohol? Is it better for the plants?

And vermiculite. Yep one of those “why didn’t I think of that” things.

 

[dbonsaiw]

FWIW, I've had far more success with layers than with cuttings. Cuttings have been really hit or miss. With JMs, the best luck I've had is with summer cuttings of new growth. I plant them in perlite and cover with sphagnum moss. I tried a bunch of cuttings this spring and the ones I actually tried to keep alive all failed. I also just stuck a few in the ground and they seem to be leafing out. Go figure.

 

[Mad Tabby]

FWIW, I've had far more success with layers than with cuttings. Cuttings have been really hit or miss. With JMs, the best luck I've had is with summer cuttings of new growth. I plant them in perlite and cover with sphagnum moss. I tried a bunch of cuttings this spring and the ones I actually tried to keep alive all failed. I also just stuck a few in the ground and they seem to be leafing out. Go figure.

That figures.

Off topic, but I’ve always struggled with. What’s the difference between sphagnum & peat moss? From the usage point of view. As in which one should I use for which reason? I know peat lowers the Ph, does sphagnum?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Thanks. I’ve been eyeballing a juniper in the park. Can’t air layer it, because it’s the park. But a little snip? You should see some of the poor trees the deer have destroyed.

Maybe I’ll just wait for the berries to turn purple.

But I did mean this as more general since, as I said, I can find specific species in the forums. Jade & African violets are supposed to be “just take a leaf, stick it in the ground, and away they go.” I know my brothers jade drops leaves & they root, but here I am with black mush.

Snip it, junipers from seed are.. time consuming. Unlike pines that one can do in 6 years, my junipers from seed 5 years ago are not even close to pencil thick. Cuttings will work faster.

As for the easy to root species, maybe you're giving them too much love. Try to ignore them for 6 days a week and maybe your success rate goes up ;-)
Sometimes that's all there is to it.

 

[dbonsaiw]

With P. Afra I let the base of cutting dry out before planting.

 

[Srt8madness]

That figures.

Off topic, but I’ve always struggled with. What’s the difference between sphagnum & peat moss? From the usage point of view. As in which one should I use for which reason? I know peat lowers the Ph, does sphagnum?

Sphagnum is still in moss form, it's a fibourous, tan colored material. It looks like you would expect long dried moss to look.

Sphagnum peat moss or peat moss is a dirt alternative, it looks like dirt. It comes from bogs and it fairly environmentally unfriendly to produce. Coco coir can usually be used instead of peat moss, and performs better as well IMO

 

[Shibui]

Easy to make black mush of jade and African violets. Just keep them too wet. Both need quite dry soil and atmosphere. Other species can root in water and wet soil but trying to root either of them in water is a recipe for disaster. Wetting the leaves of African violets is also a no-no. Only water the soil and only when close to dry.
Keeping the base of almost any cutting soaking wet can be a problem. That's why we use an open, free draining mix with plenty of air space.
Juniper cuttings do appreciate extra humidity so a plastic bag over the cuttings will usually help.

I've found that too much rooting hormone can also be detrimental, especially the powdered form. A big blob on the cutting can be too strong and maybe attract too much moisture. The base of the cutting usually turns black. For easy to root species like African violets and Jade, don't use any hormone. They'll still grow. For other species dip the base but shake off excess powder before setting the cuttings. A case of a little is good, more is not.

 

[penumbra]

I suggest spraying your cuttings with hydrogen peroxide solution to combat fungus and bacteria before you dip them in hormone, and I suggest you use a sterile rooting medium like vermiculite. I've had more success with extra-coarse vermiculite than anything else.

I soak all cuttings in a 1.5 % peroxide mix prior to sticking them.
This thread is all over the place. It starts with African Violets and jades in the same sentence and pretty much devolves from there. Determine first what you want to root and treat it independently of any preformed notions based upon information gleaned from the specific plant in question. Plants are all quite variable in there needs and in their abilities to root, As an example, I have rooted hundreds of jades and never had a single one rot, because I treat them like jades. I could absolutely guarantee that that will rot if treated like most other non succulent plants, or African violets for that matter. .
There are many plants I have rooted, and many I have failed at. Some of then to me are simply not worth the time, while others do just fine with them.
Identify the plant and act accordingly.

 

[Cajunrider]

I am terrible with cuttings. So far I only have successes with Chinese elm (who doesn't), bougainvillea, and possibly Montezuma cypress.

 

[cbroad]

best luck I've had is with summer cuttings

@Mad Tabby
I used to have the same problems with cuttings never taking, no matter how careful or attentive I was; indoors under lights, outside, different soil types, humidity dome or not, didn't matter because they would never take...

But I realized my timing was off. I would usually try to take a bunch of cuttings in spring, when I was getting excited and ramped up for another growing season... never worked because late winter/early spring are the hardest times to try to strike cuttings (for my post here, I'm talking strictly about outdoor woody plants, not herbaceous ones).

Since I realized that, I've had pretty good success with cuttings, better than 60% in the summer. No hormones, no humidity dome, or anything, just stick them in a pot and forget about them until the following year when they push new growth.

Try to find a copy of Michael Dirr's Manual of Woody Landscape Plants (the Bible for us landscapers and horticulturalists). In there, he describes the timing and methods he used to propagate, and which types of cuttings work best, and how long they usually take to form roots. What I realized is that most of the time, his successes with cuttings are semi-hardwood to hardwood cuttings, which basically means summer time after the wood has lignified. He also notes very reluctant or impossible species to root under his conditions.

Another good time is late fall to early winter, though to me on the surface this seems counterintuitive, but it seems this is also a good time because the plants have lots of accumulated energy stores that haven't been depleted yet, as opposed to early spring when the plants are coming out of dormancy and don't have much resources to give up or share for other processes (forming roots).

I also want to add, I've had much much better success with layering than with cuttings.

 

[Mad Tabby]

Easy to make black mush of jade and African violets. Just keep them too wet. Both need quite dry soil and atmosphere. Other species can root in water and wet soil but trying to root either of them in water is a recipe for disaster. Wetting the leaves of African violets is also a no-no. Only water the soil and only when close to dry.
Keeping the base of almost any cutting soaking wet can be a problem. That's why we use an open, free draining mix with plenty of air space.
Juniper cuttings do appreciate extra humidity so a plastic bag over the cuttings will usually help.

I've found that too much rooting hormone can also be detrimental, especially the powdered form. A big blob on the cutting can be too strong and maybe attract too much moisture. The base of the cutting usually turns black. For easy to root species like African violets and Jade, don't use any hormone. They'll still grow. For other species dip the base but shake off excess powder before setting the cuttings. A case of a little is good, more is not.

Thank you! This is what I was looking for. I didn’t know about the too much thing.

 

[Mad Tabby]

I soak all cuttings in a 1.5 % peroxide mix prior to sticking them.
This thread is all over the place. It starts with African Violets and jades in the same sentence and pretty much devolves from there. Determine first what you want to root and treat it independently of any preformed notions based upon information gleaned from the specific plant in question. Plants are all quite variable in there needs and in their abilities to root, As an example, I have rooted hundreds of jades and never had a single one rot, because I treat them like jades. I could absolutely guarantee that that will rot if treated like most other non succulent plants, or African violets for that matter. .
There are many plants I have rooted, and many I have failed at. Some of then to me are simply not worth the time, while others do just fine with them.
Identify the plant and act accordingly.

Yeah I was kind of looking for general information. Mostly because I have luck with nothing! So Im afraid to try anything.

 

[Mad Tabby]

@Mad Tabby
I used to have the same problems with cuttings never taking, no matter how careful or attentive I was; indoors under lights, outside, different soil types, humidity dome or not, didn't matter because they would never take...

But I realized my timing was off. I would usually try to take a bunch of cuttings in spring, when I was getting excited and ramped up for another growing season... never worked because late winter/early spring are the hardest times to try to strike cuttings (for my post here, I'm talking strictly about outdoor woody plants, not herbaceous ones).

Since I realized that, I've had pretty good success with cuttings, better than 60% in the summer. No hormones, no humidity dome, or anything, just stick them in a pot and forget about them until the following year when they push new growth.

Try to find a copy of Michael Dirr's Manual of Woody Landscape Plants (the Bible for us landscapers and horticulturalists). In there, he describes the timing and methods he used to propagate, and which types of cuttings work best, and how long they usually take to form roots. What I realized is that most of the time, his successes with cuttings are semi-hardwood to hardwood cuttings, which basically means summer time after the wood has lignified. He also notes very reluctant or impossible species to root under his conditions.

Another good time is late fall to early winter, though to me on the surface this seems counterintuitive, but it seems this is also a good time because the plants have lots of accumulated energy stores that haven't been depleted yet, as opposed to early spring when the plants are coming out of dormancy and don't have much resources to give up or share for other processes (forming roots).

I also want to add, I've had much much better success with layering than with cuttings.

$378 for the hardcover! Wow yeah I’ll check the book stores/library book sell off. They’ll let incredibly good books go for cheap.

 

[Gabler]

$378 for the hardcover! Wow yeah I’ll check the book stores/library book sell off. They’ll let incredibly good books go for cheap.

Just get the paperback. It's on sale.

Amazon.com

 

[cbroad]

$378 for the hardcover! Wow

Both of my jobs had a copy, I don't own one either My old boss would get pissed when he saw me wandering around nursery with that book and a customer...

I know some people here have some copies, maybe they'd graciously take a picture of the page or relate the info back to you if you asked about a specific species

Edit: I'm seeing used books online for around $50-$60

 

[Mad Tabby]

Just get the paperback. It's on sale.

Amazon.com

WTF! Why does it triple in price as soon as I switch to Canada!