Yellowing from inside out on Boulevard Cypress (Chamaecyparis pisifera)

[dacoontz]

Fellow nutters, I have asked you about this tree before and I have questions yet again. Honestly this is a tree that I probably don’t deserve to own but I do my best to keep it in good shape. This year I had intended to repot it but our temperatures in the spring got too hot way too fast and I felt that I missed my window. Roots are fairly dense all the way to the edges of the pot and I know it’s been at least three years since this tree was repotted.

Other than that the only thing I’ve been doing with it is trying to give it good air circulation, partial sun, not much fertilizer, and staying on top of its constant growing foliage. I’ve had to do some fairly extensive pinching 2 to 3 times this growing season.

Full disclosure, I did do some wiring this year and found that the tree swelled up quite a bit over the last several weeks causing some pretty good scarring in the crown of the tree.

My concern is that it has areas where it seems to be yellowing from the inside out. It did this once last year also but did seem to bounce back. The last time seemed more localized though. This time it seems to be more widespread. I’m wondering if it has to do with the density of the foliage and not allowing light in. But I’m also concerned about pests and the fact that I missed the repotting opportunity. Part of me wonders if I should try to repot it now but I certainly don’t want to stress the tree out unnecessarily if it could wait till spring. Here’s some pictures of the tree and the foliage that I ended up having to remove. I feel like I had to remove quite a bit of what appeared to be dying foliage. And I apologize if I’m asking a similar question that I have before. There just is not a lot of information about Boulevard Cypress for Bonsai to provide me reassurance.










Thank you for the thoughts that you might have.

 

[coh]

That is probably a natural response to the density and lack of light inside, as this is the time of year they start to shed unnecessary foliage. Those foliage masses look pretty dense - you'll need to make sure you maintain some inner growth to cut back to or they'll just keep expanding and you'll never be able to get it back under control (except maybe by grafting). Doubt there's any insect issues as the growing tips look fine, but you could do the mite test (shake the foliage over a white sheet of paper).

 

[dacoontz]

That is probably a natural response to the density and lack of light inside, as this is the time of year they start to shed unnecessary foliage. Those foliage masses look pretty dense - you'll need to make sure you maintain some inner growth to cut back to or they'll just keep expanding and you'll never be able to get it back under control (except maybe by grafting). Doubt there's any insect issues as the growing tips look fine, but you could do the mite test (shake the foliage over a white sheet of paper).

Thanks for your reply. I did wonder that about getting some back budding. I do see some here and there in the main crown so I know it’s possible. But I also know that these don’t have a tendency to be very prolific in this regard.

I hate to lose its shape as the previous owner spent many years getting it to this point. Would you continue to pinch back even know?

 

[coh]

You can pinch shoot tips and even cut out some extra shoots to open up space, but most likely it won't have an immediate impact - the plant has almost certainly already "decided" which pieces to shed this fall. However, opening up some space will help for the future. Just don't do too much now since you can't know for sure what the plant is going to drop.

 

[63pmp]

Pretty sure that's not a chameacypress. Juniper of some sort.

 

[ABCarve]

C

 

[Shibui]

Agree this looks like lack of light from overly dense branch pads.
Evergreen trees tend to go through this cycle - branch pads build up to maximum density and look great then lack of light affects inner shoots which die off leaving bare branchlets and the tree starts to look poor.
Normal evergreen maintenance involves shoots growing slowly longer over years until the outline is too far out then cut back to inner or lower shoots to start the process again. With very dense pads there won't be any live shoots to cut back to.
Just because a previous owner built up this density does not mean it was a great idea or that it has to stay that way.
I think you will need to start reducing the density of those pads. Probably thin out every second shoot all over and see how it looks. You may need to take out even more than that to allow some sun to penetrate through to the branch structure. Light penetration will allow any buds that do grow to survive. Those inner buds will be the future of your branches so it is important to nurture them.

 

[Forsoothe!]

It's a Chamaecyparis pisifera 'Boulevard', and it's been trained as a topiary which is it's problem. It's inner parts are too dense and need to be cleaned out as stated above, but I would add that it needs to be cleaned out from the under side so as to reveal the ramification supporting the canopies. The clouds should be hollow with foliage at and near the tips of twigs. It's difficult and time consuming, but do-able. The tree has to be laid on its side so you can reach in and remove old dead & dying foliage and choosing which live twigs to leave. You need to put the pot in a bucket or other round vessel that is slightly smaller in diameter than the tree's pot, the tree tilted on its side,. That will hold it ~sideways~ so you can see and reach in to pluck the insides clean. A plastic bucket, dishpan, whatever you have is better than metal which will leave scratch marks on the pot.

Thereafter, you control the outside of the clouds by pinching and/or selecting what to keep or trim, and remove dead and dying promptly keeping the clouds hollow. Being able to see the open inner structure is very desirable and an important feature of any bonsai. Topiary is viewed from a distance so the insides are relatively unimportant.

 

[dacoontz]

It has been mentioned to wait and see what continues to die back before going head long into thinning out the pads, which makes sense to me. Any additional thoughts on the timing of when is best to take on this thinning process.

 

[dacoontz]

I wonder if I could essentially follow a similar process that Mr. Hagedorn does for this very nice Cryptomeria.

There and Back Again with a Cryptomeria-

Any visit to Japan where remote temples are on the menu will usually involve Cryptomeria. These stately forest trees remind one of miniature redwoods, standing bolt upright as if on review. The Cry…

crataegus.com

 

[AJL]

Pretty sure that's not a chameacypress. Juniper of some sort.

Nope not Juniper! Its typical Cham. pisifera -Sawara cypress, it often has dieback on crowded inner branches and its not easy to stop it due to the congested shoots - it doesnt back bud readily from old growth so keep on pinching it during growing season

 

[coh]

It has been mentioned to wait and see what continues to die back before going head long into thinning out the pads, which makes sense to me. Any additional thoughts on the timing of when is best to take on this thinning process.

So the tricky thing with these, as I noted - the interior growth that will die off this fall is almost certainly already "programmed" to drop and you don't know how extensive that will be. But, the outer shoots all look very healthy, so you can certainly go ahead and do some thinning at this time. How much is safe to remove, that's hard to say. My approach would probably be conservative at this time of year - look at the structure, identify shoots/branches that you won't need going forward, and eliminate some of those. Then in the spring you can do another round.

My experience with these (I have 2 in bonsai containers) is that they tend to produce new growth at crotches, and once the branches reach a certain age they almost never produce backbuds, at least not willingly. Maybe getting the plant really strong and then doing a very hard cutback (of course, leaving some foliage) would prompt it to backbud but that is risky.

Here is a basic question - what do you want this to look like in the future? Do you like the current style or do you want to transition to something "lighter", more airy...more tree-like? If you like it the way it is, you can probably maintain it for quite a while by doing some thinning and then pinch pinch pinch during the growing season (plus cutting back extending shoots when you do have interior growth available). If you want a more tree-like structure with pads, secondary branches visible, etc, that will require a lot of selective pruning, wiring, and maybe grafting.

 

[Forsoothe!]

...it doesn't back bud readily from old growth so keep on pinching it during growing season.

And that's why you trim and choose what lives and what dies instead of just being a janitor.

 

[Vance Wood]

Pretty sure that's not a chameacypress. Juniper of some sort.

It is a Chameacypress Pisifera (sp). You need to keep trimming the growth back constantly to green growth. If you do not its natural density will cause die back leaving you with Pom Pom growth.

 

[63pmp]

I always thought C. pisifera looked like this:

http://www.ibotky.cz/img/fotogalerie/9-hrdinka/chamaecyparis-pisifera.jpg

There you go, looks like there are more than one type.

 

[Forsoothe!]

This is what Nick Keren's (Windsor, Ontario, 2005), 'Boulevard Cypress' looks like...

Sorry this is not clearer.

 

[leatherback]

Chamaecyparis pisifera 'Boulevard'

Indeed

I would thin out all these big pads and remove half of the foliage on them, so you can pretty much see down through them again. Over the winter season think about future design, wire out etc. I have found these to be robust and much better backbudders than some other chameacyparis.

 

[dacoontz]

Indeed

I would thin out all these big pads and remove half of the foliage on them, so you can pretty much see down through them again. Over the winter season think about future design, wire out etc. I have found these to be robust and much better backbudders than some other chameacyparis.

It does seem to be thinning itself out. It continues to have shoots yellowing in all areas. I think there’s something more a foot. Why would it seem to be accelerating the process this year? This is why I mentioned in my first post that I wondered if it needs a repot. Am I wrong to think that if there isn’t any room left in the pot for root development that this could be the result. If so, is an emergency repot needed? I worry that this tree is showing signs of distress and a repot might be the proverbial straw.

 

[Forsoothe!]

The tree canopies are too tight, they (the stems that are going to live and look good) need light. You need to make your canopies as open as post #16.

 

[leatherback]

Why would it seem to be accelerating the process this year? This is why I mentioned in my first post that I wondered if it needs a repot. Am I wrong to think that if there isn’t any room left in the pot for root development that this could be the result.

You get this when the canopy is too dense and the branches do not get enough light. From the cuts you showed it looks like this was not properly thinned and trimmed for multiple years.

Of course, if the roots cannot go anywhere this can also happen. However, unless you see the rootball lifting itself up and rise over the edge of the pot, I doubt that that is the main cause.