namnhi
Masterpiece
I like 
the new look with the new bents. The old San Luis arch is so uninteresting.
the new look with the new bents. The old San Luis arch is so uninteresting.
Yashu’s another JBP progression thread.
- Thread starter yashu
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LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
Looks better minus the unsightly arch as mentioned. Big bends with the heat we've had in the area can be a bit risky. Bark/wood interface seems a bit more "tight", mitigating some bark-slip in late summer, fall as being a gentler time to wire. Of course big bends can be dangerous if done too late in the season. Depends if you can avoid hard-freeze thru the winter.
Descending branch seems pretty vigorous, a bit too much actually. In our climate I think serious consideration should be given to a focus on fall shoot/branch pruning in lieu of aggressive spring work. At least on material relatively young like this. It depends a lot on the previous season's conditions and your care.
Maybe cut needles back to the top of the sheath. Better chance to back-bud as opposed to needle-pulling. This is on needles you intend to pull but would like some potential areas for back budding.
I work out three to five-year objectives to work towards an "image" in my mind for any Pine. Then assess and formulate the next steps....
Descending branch seems pretty vigorous, a bit too much actually. In our climate I think serious consideration should be given to a focus on fall shoot/branch pruning in lieu of aggressive spring work. At least on material relatively young like this. It depends a lot on the previous season's conditions and your care.
Maybe cut needles back to the top of the sheath. Better chance to back-bud as opposed to needle-pulling. This is on needles you intend to pull but would like some potential areas for back budding.
I work out three to five-year objectives to work towards an "image" in my mind for any Pine. Then assess and formulate the next steps....
I like
the “San Luis” arch
If the fates are with me and this tree continues to thrive what am I looking at for a time frame in which the bends will set and I can remove the wire and wood blocks?
I think that the over-vigorous descending branch is a result of skipping decandling this spring. With my inexperience I was unsure what the actual state of the tree was in late winter and into spring so I opted to forego the technique and focus on health rather than refinement/ramification. Next season, if all goes well, I should be able to encourage some bifurcation and smaller needles in exchange for the amplified growth I have right now. That said, my hope is that the current vigor should help it survive what I’ve done.
I think that the over-vigorous descending branch is a result of skipping decandling this spring. With my inexperience I was unsure what the actual state of the tree was in late winter and into spring so I opted to forego the technique and focus on health rather than refinement/ramification. Next season, if all goes well, I should be able to encourage some bifurcation and smaller needles in exchange for the amplified growth I have right now. That said, my hope is that the current vigor should help it survive what I’ve done.
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Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Yikes! This looks like something I would have done! As Lance mentioned, your timing may not be the greatest... early-mid September may have been better but the deed is done and the material is better for it if it survives 
. Fwiw, "San Luis" = St. Louis me thinks. As an aside, I believe this is exactly what we should be doing with stock like this... push the limits to make it better. As another aside, I probably would have decandled this spring... and I still might next year. Let the tree tell you what to do.
. Fwiw, "San Luis" = St. Louis me thinks. As an aside, I believe this is exactly what we should be doing with stock like this... push the limits to make it better. As another aside, I probably would have decandled this spring... and I still might next year. Let the tree tell you what to do.Well shoot. I’ll take that there as a compliment
I kind of stuffed this question in among some other stuff so I’ll ask again in the hopes that someone has an idea. How long should I expect to leave this plant bound and tied before the bends set? Is there anything that accelerates or retards the setting of bends in JBPs?
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Strong growth is what you need. I’d be fertilizing heavily right now. It’s possible the bends will be set by next spring but may take another growing season.
Yeah, it’s loaded with Biogold right now as well as a dash of Osmacote and some Dr Earth’s with the beneficial mycorrhizae. No short needles this season
.I frequently watch the BonsaiQ YouTube channel and it looks like they were getting super heavy and radical bends to set in a season. They also have the climate to do that where I have some pretty long cold winters.
So I’ve been looking at this up on the bench for the last week or so and I think I might make the back the new front. I’ve had it turned away from me so that the foliage catches the morning through noon sun better and I realized that you can see more of the branch structure and the angle makes the sharp bend appear even tighter. I think it ads some density to the composition. The photo is a little rough as the trees in the background blend with the foliage but enough is visible to get the point across.
With fall on us in this area and winter approaching, what are the lowest temps that you allow your JBP to be exposed to? As mentioned in my first post this tree spent last winter in a boxed window in a temperature controlled (40° to 50° F) warehouse as it was recovering from heavy fall root work and repot into a nursery can. This winter I need to choose whether it goes a) outside with my other cold hardy pines, I’m zone 5b/4a. b) in my temp controlled garage that is regulated at 34° or c) back in the warehouse. What are the thoughts from the hive mind?
Fall photo for the heck of it…
Fall photo for the heck of it…
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Hmm since you adjusted a bend with the wood wedge it looks a lot better than before .. with tht being said … I think a temperature controlled garage that goes to 34 might be good route .. that way you protect it from harsh weather with that big bend allowing to recover then next year you can keep it out .. I have a bunch of big bends on stuff I did in late summer early fall that I’m keeping in garage .. I also do shuffle so it stays outside but in unheated garage if it goes below 32
Thanks @Shogun610 I’ll go with that. I have a good southwest facing window and supplemental lighting I can use in my garage as well.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Yeah... 34 F regulated right through the winter sounds good. Fwiw, my JBP have seen plenty of sub 0 F temps through the years in zone 6... a whole different can of worms in zone 4/5 though.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Personally have good result from notching. Once edges healed(grafted)together better sharper acute bends possible without as long wait
. On such young thin tree if edges pulled tightly together would give 1 to 1 1/2 years to heal. As you have it would give at least 2 full years; not growing seasons, years.
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I have been reading up on all things pine as I just acquired a new and wonderful JWP seedling and of course I inevitably revisit my other pines to compare and contrast horticulture and styling techniques.
This led me to the question that since JBP is apically dominant, where should I expect new growth to be heaviest?
The tree has basically been flipped and what was on the bottom is now going to become the crown. All of the current thick growth from this past year is at what was the ends of what was the upper branches. Will this continue or can I expect the smaller buds where the crown is currently to increase in vigor and potentially the old top to lose a bit of vigor?
I guess the question in summery is if the plant is apically dominant with respect to gravity and sun or from the point furthest from the root?
Most current photo. I’ve rewired in copper instead of aluminum and did a bit of needle thinning and shoot selection.
This led me to the question that since JBP is apically dominant, where should I expect new growth to be heaviest?
The tree has basically been flipped and what was on the bottom is now going to become the crown. All of the current thick growth from this past year is at what was the ends of what was the upper branches. Will this continue or can I expect the smaller buds where the crown is currently to increase in vigor and potentially the old top to lose a bit of vigor?
I guess the question in summery is if the plant is apically dominant with respect to gravity and sun or from the point furthest from the root?
Most current photo. I’ve rewired in copper instead of aluminum and did a bit of needle thinning and shoot selection.
Ryceman3
Shohin
My understanding (briefly) is this:
Apical dominance has more to do with hormone distribution. An apically dominant tree will push auxin to the tips of the branches pointing up, and this hormone inhibits growth of buds etc below in favour of tip buds… so new growth is essentially up high in the tree. When you wire a strong apical branch down, hormones are re-allocated by the tree and so new areas that are now higher up will get prioritised by the tree and so an increase in auxin levels to drive new growth from these parts.
One of the advantages of laying branches down with wire is that Cytokinin (another hormone) is stimulated and that can have the effect of encouraging budding along the branch, as auxin levels drop.
Hope that helps…
Apical dominance has more to do with hormone distribution. An apically dominant tree will push auxin to the tips of the branches pointing up, and this hormone inhibits growth of buds etc below in favour of tip buds… so new growth is essentially up high in the tree. When you wire a strong apical branch down, hormones are re-allocated by the tree and so new areas that are now higher up will get prioritised by the tree and so an increase in auxin levels to drive new growth from these parts.
One of the advantages of laying branches down with wire is that Cytokinin (another hormone) is stimulated and that can have the effect of encouraging budding along the branch, as auxin levels drop.
Hope that helps…
I brought this with me to the black pine workshop I attended and they set me up with a nice pot (dug up from out back for a whopping $15!). Did the repot into proper 1:1:1 mix instead of my usual DE based “poor man’s mix”… I’m curious to see if it will be noticeably more vigorous or not. The rootball had not really increased in size but there were more active root tips. Excited to see some refinement and needle length reduction this season!
