Yamadori oak trunk chop question

[Giga]

I was planning to keep that soil wet for the first week so the roots could recover a bit. If they survive they'll be put in bonsai soil next year the same time the chop is made.
At least that's the idea, if anyone has a better idea please let me know

I would have just planted in bonsai soil right off, no need to disrupt roots again right after collection. Its a bit much for collected trees

 

[Potawatomi13]

Problem is something else here. It is not really interesting material.

Second boring straight uninteresting trunks.

 

[M. Frary]

And finally, this is not the best time to collect material if you're just starting out.

Then let it be for two or three years

The two most important sentences of advice in this whole thread.
Just tossed in the wind.
Zach collects trees for a living.
RockM more than likely has an oak or two.
Personally I wouldn't even try an oak from northern climates.
Red oak and white oak don't lend themselves to bonsai very well. Which given where you live will be the most likely candidates.

 

[rockm]

I was planning to keep that soil wet for the first week so the roots could recover a bit. If they survive they'll be put in bonsai soil next year the same time the chop is made.
At least that's the idea, if anyone has a better idea please let me know

Wet soil WILL NOT help it recover. Wet soil WILL INHIBIT rooting. Wet soil will eventually kill the tree.

Root systems need oxygen and gas exchange to recover. That is why porous soil--bonsai soil--should be used in recovery for the vast vast majority of species we use for bonsai.

Good luck with the potting soil. You're going to need it. It is about the worst thing you can use for recently collected trees.

 

[Fonz]

Good advice everyone. In this case I guess mistakes have to be made in order to learn. I put the smallest of the trees in bonsai soil (I know messing with the roots too much isn't helpful either but I was almost loosing sleep over this). We'll see where we end up with this.

 

[Fonz]

Update, both trees died. The biggest right away, the smalles lost it's leaves but wasstill green under the bark until 2 months ago. What the hell was I thinking a year ago

 

[Potawatomi13]

was I thinking a year ago

Perhaps not. Roots shown looked very poor.

 

[Ruben Bouwmeester]

Like @Maros say's, feb/april. Collecting tree's this time of year isn't a good time. Wish for the best, i have don it manny times without succes. Oak are harder to collect then other deciduous. And please don't call it yamadori. Is it just in Potgrond? Here they say: RIP Rest In Potgrond.

 

[leatherback]

Just to make sure.. I know of one person who has experience collecting oak in your climatic whereabouts: H. Harrington. He has a whole article about collecting. Advices collection in summer, and submerging the collected material in a tub of water. Have you read his post? He suggests collecting in late summer what nights are warm, days are cooling towards fall and weather is humid.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATquercus rootpruning and repotting.htm

I cannot help you as I am about to have my oak die on my after a repot this spring. Hate it, because I got it from a field and it survived collection just fine a few years ago.

 

[Ruben Bouwmeester]

Just to make sure.. I know of one person who has experience collecting oak in your climatic whereabouts: H. Harrington. He has a whole article about collecting. Advices collection in summer, and submerging the collected material in a tub of water. Have you read his post? He suggests collecting in late summer what nights are warm, days are cooling towards fall and weather is humid.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATquercus rootpruning and repotting.htm

I cannot help you as I am about to have my oak die on my after a repot this spring. Hate it, because I got it from a field and it survived collection just fine a few years ago.

Gone try that, i learned to dig them in early spring. https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/oak-sticks-in-a-box.31851/ 10 out off 11

 

[rockm]

Update, both trees died. The biggest right away, the smalles lost it's leaves but wasstill green under the bark until 2 months ago. What the hell was I thinking a year ago

I have a feeling that the soil you used to pot them up is the issue. It likely smothered and rotted the roots from too much moisture. It is standard practice to use bonsai soil for newly collected trees, as newly developing roots REQUIRE oxygen to grow. They will not if they're in a soil that doesn't drain and pull air into the soil mass. They will most likely have died even if you followed Harrington's advice to the letter.

 

[substratum]

About four years ago I chainsawed a 20’ Live Oak tree, with an 8” trunk, at about 24” (it was the source of massive quantities of leaves in the pool). This tree is in full sun most of the day. Never got around to taking that stump the rest of the way down. Today, it is about 15’ tall, and growing strong. Oaks are tough.

 

[leatherback]

Oaks are tough.

untill you touch the roots..

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Gone try that, i learned to dig them in early spring. https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/oak-sticks-in-a-box.31851/ 10 out off 11

Hear hear! I used the harrington summer collection method and lost all collected oak trees. Spring collection did work, but those weren't as pretty. I'll be on the hunt again nextr spring.

 

[leatherback]

but those weren't as pretty.

You think that is why the collection was a success? I sometimes feel there is a negetive relation between success and beauty when it comes to collecting trees.

Hm.. Not only trees I suppose.

 

[Fonz]

I have a feeling that the soil you used to pot them up is the issue. It likely smothered and rotted the roots from too much moisture. It is standard practice to use bonsai soil for newly collected trees, as newly developing roots REQUIRE oxygen to grow. They will not if they're in a soil that doesn't drain and pull air into the soil mass. They will most likely have died even if you followed Harrington's advice to the letter.

Absolutely correct. I was told that after I made this thread and posted the pics. So I repotted 1 of the 2 trees in inorganic soil a day after the first repot (yes I know, the horror...). That one lasted for a while but almost had no hair roots so it slowely slipped away. I guess myself and the trees weren't ready for collecting last summer. Going to give it another try next winter/spring.

 

[Fonz]

Perhaps not. Roots shown looked very poor.

Yes they were. almost no hair roots on the smallest one. It was growing in a very sandy spot so I guess the "real" roots where much deeper in the ground.

 

[Fonz]

And please don't call it yamadori. Is it just in Potgrond? Here they say: RIP Rest In Potgrond.

As I said, that was 1 year ago, these days I wouldn't dare to call a tree that's not collected at a 3000m alltitude and without risking of your own life collecting it a Yamadori

Yeah, that's just plain potgrond. Only use the stuff to sow seeds now. We learn a little every day.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

You think that is why the collection was a success? I sometimes feel there is a negetive relation between success and beauty when it comes to collecting trees.

Hm.. Not only trees I suppose.

Well, the amount of care and broken shovels that went into collecting good material would benefit recovery. It was just the time of year, I think: trees that are just in full leaf have spent their sugars, and they have less left for recovery.
Spring collection before bud break was done without thinking and just pulled from the dirt. Those made it.
Luckily we have a patch of forest with some oaks, so I'll try a fall collection too.

 

[Backwardsvg]

Rule of thumb it is not good to trunk chop and leave the tree where it is in temperate forest conditions -- at least here in the eastern U.S. Generally, the loss of the top growth kills off the roots, because the new growth that is produced can't support the root mass.

Generally, the top is given a rough chop when the tree is collected. European collectors have begun collecting oaks in the summer and are having more success than spring collection.

so you can collect oaks in the summer?