Yamabudoudanshi's 2020-25 Moonbeam 「月光」 Satsuki

[Harunobu]

Are you keeping it inside? It should be fine outside, if you have space/a garden.

You say it grew well up top. But in the pictures, I don't see any long news shoots. So these were pruned back already?

Hmm, you didn't get that many new buds? None on that larger branch on the left side that was pruned?
Those new shoots at the base are kind of useless.

I think I would wait to see what it does come spring. You pruned a lot, but it didn't respond with new growth very strongly, it seems.
I kinda want to say to leave it mostly alone for 2021. Maybe prune back the long shoots on the two sidetrunks in May 2021. And then in late winter 2022 try again and maybe remove both two sidetrunks. And make it a single trunk.

If so, make sure the central trunk can grow a lot in 2021. But where you have the Y shape in the central trunk now, make sure one is strong and the other is weak.

I kind of feel that with minimum pruning in 2021, since you have such bald branches and you have new buds at the very base now, there is a good chance that late summer 2021, it will bud back on those bald branches. Cut back to long stubs so you have a lot of dormant buds in those stubs you leave. This in contrast to cutting flush. And if it does, that allows you to prune back in 2022 to these new shoots.
In that case, by the end of 2022, you have a single trunk with a nice taper, and some juvenile shoots on them to work with. And you can grow some foliage pads in 2023 and 2024.

If you prune it back hard in late winter 2021, for example removing both side-trunks, it may not respond as you want because right now it seems a bit weak. So that is not ideal. You will end up with something that is pruned hard several times, but each time doesn't respond to the pruning.
Alternatively, if not pruned at all, it may just grow new long shoots from the apical tips, and not backbud without pruning. That doesn't get you to where you want. But at least in that case, you have a tree that is growing well. Just not in the right way.

If it neither backbuds on old unshaded wood, and it also doesn't backbud strongly when pruned back. Then maybe one has to try to prune hard aka chop it in late winter 2022. And then not touch it at all in 2021 in preparation for that.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Are you keeping it inside? It should be fine outside, if you have space/a garden.

You say it grew well up top. But in the pictures, I don't see any long news shoots. So these were pruned back already?

Hmm, you didn't get that many new buds? None on that larger branch on the left side that was pruned?
Those new shoots at the base are kind of useless.

I think I would wait to see what it does come spring. You pruned a lot, but it didn't respond with new growth very strongly, it seems.
I kinda want to say to leave it mostly alone for 2021. Maybe prune back the long shoots on the two sidetrunks in May 2021. And then in late winter 2022 try again and maybe remove both two sidetrunks. And make it a single trunk.

If so, make sure the central trunk can grow a lot in 2021. But where you have the Y shape in the central trunk now, make sure one is strong and the other is weak.

I kind of feel that with minimum pruning in 2021, since you have such bald branches and you have new buds at the very base now, there is a good chance that late summer 2021, it will bud back on those bald branches. Cut back to long stubs so you have a lot of dormant buds in those stubs you leave. This in contrast to cutting flush. And if it does, that allows you to prune back in 2022 to these new shoots.
In that case, by the end of 2022, you have a single trunk with a nice taper, and some juvenile shoots on them to work with. And you can grow some foliage pads in 2023 and 2024.

If you prune it back hard in late winter 2021, for example removing both side-trunks, it may not respond as you want because right now it seems a bit weak. So that is not ideal. You will end up with something that is pruned hard several times, but each time doesn't respond to the pruning.
Alternatively, if not pruned at all, it may just grow new long shoots from the apical tips, and not backbud without pruning. That doesn't get you to where you want. But at least in that case, you have a tree that is growing well. Just not in the right way.

If it neither backbuds on old unshaded wood, and it also doesn't backbud strongly when pruned back. Then maybe one has to try to prune hard aka chop it in late winter 2022. And then not touch it at all in 2021 in preparation for that.

It's outside. Realized the pictures are pretty bad (par for the course) but it completely doubled up on foliage. There are a few long shoots but they're all near the top.

Thanks for all the thoughtful advice. I'll keep it in mind for the future.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Ok, the azalea looks pretty good with your first chop done.

It would be nice to have a photo from the other side and one from either side, 90 degrees from the original.

That said, to me...from the first photo I’d think the middle trunk would be the keeper. I can see potential in either fork.

I like the left side of the middle fork the best from this one photo... then follow to its fork and chop the left side 1” and the right side is your new trunk.

Let’s see those other photos though..

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sort of like this! It will give you a good line... from what I can see...
Leave 3/4” stub on lower right fork too... for new branch area to sprout.

Then I’d not cut the main trunk line until you get good long buds elsewhere to keep a good strong sap flow to encourage back budding. IMHO that’s a mistake folks often make that slows development. But you could do that too if you choose.

Once these buds are healthy and elongate, cut the top off proportionately to encourage back budding on that section and start your next bend.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Pitoon]

Spring is here and your azalea could be blooming (depending on your location) or starting to leaf out with this season’s flush……it’s time for updates!

I would also like to add at this time we have 3 prizes to award. Many thanks to @Forsoothe! and @Deep Sea Diver for donating. I am also donating a prize as well.

If you are no longer interested in continuing in the Azalea Contest, please let me know so we can close your thread, thanks.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Update Time:

This thing is still coming along in a pretty underwhelming manner.

In mid-February, I followed Deep Sea Diver's advice and essentially cut it back to one trunk.

I also removed the forming flower buds somewhere around the end of March. I know there's a lot of debate on whether this does anything, but it seems to have immediately put that energy into a new flush of growth up top.

It also rewarded me with another bud at the soil line, 4 new buds at the fork where I hope the eventual apex will be, and womp womp womp.... nothing in between. Oh, well.

I'm hoping that once these new buds harden off (around monsoon season), that I might be able to cut back to just above the fork... and hopefully get some buds in between all of the wounds on the main trunk.

Photos are all dated.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Our freakishly early spring has continued and we appear to be in the monsoon season already.

In just the past month the satsuki has pushed out a ton of new growth although mostly near the bottom. During that time, I slowly reduced the top and then today, removed it entirely. I also cut back the stub I left last time and resealed the wound. The tree now stands at what I hope to be its final height.

I also put a bit of wire on one of the stronger new branches and will probably continue to do so as more elongate.

It is probably hard to tell from my old phone photos but besides the top and bottom, it's also pushed 2 new buds at the back around the middle of the first trunk section.

I think there might actually be hope of having some primary branch studs set by the end of this season.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Our freakishly early spring has continued and we appear to be in the monsoon season already.

In just the past month the satsuki has pushed out a ton of new growth although mostly near the bottom. During that time, I slowly reduced the top and then today, removed it entirely. I also cut back the stub I left last time and resealed the wound. The tree now stands at what I hope to be its final height.

I also put a bit of wire on one of the stronger new branches and will probably continue to do so as more elongate.

It is probably hard to tell from my old phone photos but besides the top and bottom, it's also pushed 2 new buds at the back around the middle of the first trunk section.

I think there might actually be hope of having some primary branch studs set by the end of this season.

How long is the monsoon season and how much of the country is covered?

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

How long is the monsoon season and how much of the country is covered?

With the exception of Hokkaido and parts of Northern Honshu, basically the whole country experiences it to some extent. It varies from year to year, but it lasts for about 5 weeks in most places (Beginning of June through to the second week of July normally).

Western Japan tends to get a lot more heavy rain where Eastern Japan just gets a lot of overcast/misty/drizzly kind of days, but some years are very wet and others are very dry by comparison.

For bonsai though, this tends to be the best growing season, when most people pump the trees they're developing full of fertilizer and watch them grow. I can already see noticeable extension from many of mine in just this past week. My garden is on a sheltered balcony, so I can't credit the rainwater itself, but the huge bump in humidity.

 

[Forsoothe!]

With the exception of Hokkaido and parts of Northern Honshu, basically the whole country experiences it to some extent. It varies from year to year, but it lasts for about 5 weeks in most places (Beginning of June through to the second week of July normally).

Western Japan tends to get a lot more heavy rain where Eastern Japan just gets a lot of overcast/misty/drizzly kind of days, but some years are very wet and others are very dry by comparison.

For bonsai though, this tends to be the best growing season, when most people pump the trees they're developing full of fertilizer and watch them grow. I can already see noticeable extension from many of mine in just this past week. My garden is on a sheltered balcony, so I can't credit the rainwater itself, but the huge bump in humidity.

So now we know the origin of the traditional bonsai media with lots of rocks, and it makes sense for such a climate. My Michigan is nothing like that, having precipitation approximately even, year-around, so my enriched high-organic top-soil with zero rocks works here and is appropriate to my climate.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Bit of an update,

The satsuki has done pretty well since it's last haircut. Still very basal dominant, but I'm working on developing some primary branches about half way up as well as what might end up being the apex.

Still have a section of upper trunk without any buds. I really don't like the empty space there, but I'm not sure what to do about it.

Before/after of today's cutback.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Looks good so far. Here’s my thoughts.

It would be good to lay out your proposed design at this point. … not sure what it is.

It was good to see the lower growth taken off, shifting energy upward.

At this point it’s best to let the apex run free. The stronger the apex grows the more budding you will see along the main trunk. If you cut the apex back the energy will go to the closest branch that is not checked and slow the growth upward. So choose which will be your apex for now and don’t cut it back until you choose another later if you get a good angle to assist the design. Then the old apex will become a side branch as the new apex runs free.

Also I recommend you stop the very tip growth of all side branches…. This will push the growth to the top.

The growth will now accelerate as the tree accumulates more foliage as long as you keep handling it like you have.

Your call from here.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Forsoothe!]

Ya know how I hate to be critical, but here at 15 months into the game we see the results of too many changes in strategy to count and a tree that is smaller, as in lessor, in almost every step and now down to a place it could have been on May 25, 2020. What might the architecture be if all the growth that has occurred in the last 15 months had not been excised a bunch of times?

Establishing a goal and a strategy to attain it early in the game is very important. It doesn't matter whether the goal is a very small plant or any other size. It does matter that the growth be managed so that as much wood is retained as possible so that you build the trunk and branches you want that needs to support the canopy of your choice. Imagine the amount of wood which could be in place if no wood had been trimmed, only buds pinched and leaves lost to old age in the quiet period.

Vance Hanna, ex of Detroit, now of Modesto, CA taught students to first make drawings of their tree as is and where going so a pathway could be imprinted and followed, wasting as little time and energy as possible. Paper is cheap and replaceable as the design evolves. Time is irretrievable. I am perfectly aware that this was and still is a learning experience for the OP and that he wouldn't have had a proper strategy in mind at the beginning because of that. My puposes are to give a poke in the ribs at a time when a lesson is most learn-able. I believe in the future. Just like Vance.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I hear you and respect your opinion and applaud you putting this out and I concur with most all of the above….

Having a design is good. imho having a bare working knowledge of what a tree is capable of and how it reacts to pruning, timing, horticultural needs etc before you force a tree into a plan is superior. The OP started out with none.

…. I’m sure you can recall way back when you had your very first azalea or pine or whatever and didn’t have a clue with what to do with a tree, how it reacts, or the limits of what the tree could actually handle … either design wise or horticulturally…. and didn’t have the confidence to take the first big step? I do…. I couldn’t envision a viable design at that time.

So here’s where we differ. The goal for this contest in my mind is to learn how to produce a decent bonsai design in five years. Not to produce a perfect satsuki bonsai in five years. Even John Naka et al stated that in five years one could get a pretty good start on producing a nice satsuki bonsai design and in ten years a decent bonsai.

The OP is doing just fine and has had some uncertainties and miscues along the way. Yet the tree is strong and healthy at this point. That’s a really good sign and says a lot about his care of the satsuki. Many others with more confidence have killed their trees already. I expect from here on the tree will take great steps forward in the next three years.

btw: Last winter a rabbit decided that my satsuki would be a really good snack. So I’m just a little bit ahead of the OP’s design myself and learning a lot. Especially sad in that I was ignorant enough to choose a slow growing Kikisui vs the speedy Minato that was right next to it for the contest… I just didn’t know. Things were overwhelming for me on so many levels at the the time!

So Sega no lequ and on with the contest. (Fijian ‘No worries!’)

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Ya know how I hate to be critical, but here at 15 months into the game we see the results of too many changes in strategy to count and a tree that is smaller, as in lessor, in almost every step and now down to a place it could have been on May 25, 2020. What might the architecture be if all the growth that has occurred in the last 15 months had not been excised a bunch of times?

Establishing a goal and a strategy to attain it early in the game is very important. It doesn't matter whether the goal is a very small plant or any other size. It does matter that the growth be managed so that as much wood is retained as possible so that you build the trunk and branches you want that needs to support the canopy of your choice. Imagine the amount of wood which could be in place if no wood had been trimmed, only buds pinched and leaves lost to old age in the quiet period.

Vance Hanna, ex of Detroit, now of Modesto, CA taught students to first make drawings of their tree as is and where going so a pathway could be imprinted and followed, wasting as little time and energy as possible. Paper is cheap and replaceable as the design evolves. Time is irretrievable. I am perfectly aware that this was and still is a learning experience for the OP and that he wouldn't have had a proper strategy in mind at the beginning because of that. My puposes are to give a poke in the ribs at a time when a lesson is most learn-able. I believe in the future. Just like Vance.

While you are probably right in almost every way, I can't say that I see it the same way. Remember, some people like myself, don't actually care if they do everything the right way and care much more about the process.

While a lot of people like to sketch and plan, and that might work for them, I am personally not a fan. These are living things, and they do not always grow according to a sketch. I much prefer a more hands on approach. I'm in this hobby for me and not to appease anyway else. This contest is simply a way for me to document my choices, and the results of those choices so I have something to look back on.

I do have a rough idea what I would like to see 4 years from now, the fact is that in the end, it's up to the tree. I am merely using this contest to learn about the species and how to manage growth on it. I cut, wire, watch, and wait. I am not concerned about the fastest way to the finish line, nor about winning this contest. Learning is the fun part.

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Quick end of year update. Not bad considering it was a bare trunk back in February.

Next season, I'm going to follow the advice I was given and let the apex run in hopes that it can smooth out the taper in that second section of trunk and that I might finally get some buds along that section as well.

Also, I'll try to keep the existing branches in check and focus on ramification while eliminating any flower buds that form in the spring.

Overall, I'm happy with the size of tree. I really like trees in the mini (sub-10 cm) category, so I'm going to attempt to finish this contest within that size. Proportionally, this probably isn't the best specied to do it with, but something about a 6-8 flower spring canopy seems kind of fun and ridiculous.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sounds like a plan. Holding the basal growth in check is a good idea.

Some thoughts,

If you choose to let the tree flower, you might consider less flowers on the apex to help that section run. Also trim back the branchlets that form around the lower flowers in the end of April/early May. They will grow back, but this action should help boost the upper trunk’s growth.

I’d just let all trunk buds grow out for a little bit on the trunk, Then choose those that best fit your design.

Given proper fertilization and watering this lil guy should take off this year.

Which brings us back to this point @Forsoothe brought up earlier in the year… At some point in April/May you’ll have a couple years under your belt on this bonsai.

By then you should have enough time to know this tree’s response to your care. Thus would be an appropriate time to take his advice and try your hand at puzzling out out your future design on paper

But your tree your choice

Happy Holidays to you and yours!
DSD sends

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Sounds like a plan. Holding the basal growth in check is a good idea.

Some thoughts,

If you choose to let the tree flower, you might consider less flowers on the apex to help that section run. Also trim back the branchlets that form around the lower flowers in the end of April/early May. They will grow back, but this action should help boost the upper trunk’s growth.

I’d just let all trunk buds grow out for a little bit on the trunk, Then choose those that best fit your design.

Given proper fertilization and watering this lil guy should take off this year.

Which brings us back to this point @Forsoothe brought up earlier in the year… At some point in April/May you’ll have a couple years under your belt on this bonsai.

By then you should have enough time to know this tree’s response to your care. Thus would be an appropriate time to take his advice and try your hand at puzzling out out your future design on paper

But your tree your choice

Happy Holidays to you and yours!
DSD sends

Sage advice,

I'll try my best not to totally screw it up.

Happy Holidays!

 

[Yamabudoudanshi]

Small update. Buds are pushing and spring has sprung with a balmy 19C yesterday, so I repotted the satsuki.

I had a habit of way overpotting everything in my first year at bonsai, and realized that not only was this wasting precious space, but not really getting me better growth, so this has been potted into a slit pot - I've basically been using these for everything in the early stages of development.

100% kanuma with a top dressing this time. I'll start fetilizing in a week or so, and let it run wild from there.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Greetings!

Your azalea is still ticking, so good job! You might wait to fertilize for at least two weeks, then use 1/2 normal for first montth.

Cheers
DSD sends