WP in ground "style" too far gone ?

[Japonicus]

Here's the sister in a large pot, same pot like my larger Hinoki is in.
Being in the pot, it is about 1/3 the diameter as the one in ground, but it has been kept from going wild on me at the same time.

That's plain laziness on my part allowing the one in ground to get away from me like that.
I do wish I'd found BN years ago in times like this.

Yes that's one ugly ... base. I'm not even going to call that a nebari out of courtesy to the hobby.
I always thought it looked like the tree was walking to the right and away. Now it's just embarrassing. I don't care about the pot style/colour.
It's a grow pot, it's not plastic, it is heavy and aerodynamic. That I care about. Plus it was cost effective

 

[0soyoung]

Here's the sister in a large pot, same pot like my larger Hinoki is in.
Being in the pot, it is about 1/3 the diameter as the one in ground, but it has been kept from going wild on me at the same time.

So what did you do to keep this one from 'going wild' on you?

Yes that's one ugly ... base. I'm not even going to call that a nebari

No argument about this, but maybe it could be made into an asset --> an exposed root bonsai, root over rock. The forests here were cut about a century ago, so there are lots of trees growing as root over stumps (the stumps will aren't far from rotting away now - I might live to see it). Think about it. Off hand, it seems to open lots of off-the-wall arty possibilities (and be a different way of 'going wild!') without necessarily closing the doors on being more conventional if you prefer. Fixing the present rootage would be a big and lengthy project, I think.

I don't know if I should apologize or what. I'm having entirely too much vicarious fun with your trees!

 

[Japonicus]

So what did you do to keep this one from 'going wild' on you?

Mostly a couple of branch removals, and a little wire, but also 3/4 length candle pinching, some, but not enough pruning.
Actually, most of my plants took back seat, and were neglected with an ongoing multi point back injury
and I knew keeping a reef tank and bonsai, that one or both hobbies would take a hit, working 6 days/wk. Life.

No argument about this, but maybe it could be made into an asset --> an exposed root bonsai, root over rock...
Think about it. Off hand, it seems to open lots of off-the-wall arty possibilities (and be a different way of 'going wild!') without necessarily closing the doors on being more conventional if you prefer.

I like your thinking

Fixing the present rootage would be a big and lengthy project, I think.

No kidding. I didn't think it was fixable, but working with what the tree offers, I'm will to make a stab at ROR.

I don't know if I should apologize or what. I'm having entirely too much vicarious fun with your trees!

You just pull up a chair and have all the fun you like 0soyoung

Anyone willing to spend as much time as you have to lend a hand, and as courteously as you have, shan't be denied their fun.

OK, that said, Lemme burst your bubble a little bit, then patch it back up.
I hate trunk chops...on my stock. I will be doing just that with this WP, given your lead.
I have maples that need chopped eventually. We'll get there.

 

[0soyoung]

Regarding maples, you can always air layer instead of chop and toss. It was my emotional crutch for many years. Now I am over it (maybe ).

 

[clem]

Here's a pic after cutting the grass there and cultivating the top soil. Again the smooth band of bark I'm pretty sure is where
a plant tag was too snug, creating a tourniquet. The top of the bark above the band line, is higher than the bottom of branch #1.
If you feel this is grafted, do tell.

View attachment 204502

hello, it look like it has been grafted on a scots pine, IMO !

 

[Japonicus]

hello, it look like it has been grafted on a scots pine, IMO !

You could be correct. Thanks for the input
There certainly was no graft scars when I purchased these from the nursery, and for all
practical purposes, appeared to me to be on their own roots they'd done such a swell job.
Do enlarge the picture in post #10 with this WP in the back of my pick up truck and you'll see what I mean.
Oh well, most importantly is the next step 0soyoung suggested to determine if strobus or not...
At least, the under stock or graft and scion have remained synched really well, size wise.

Looks like an Eastern white pine (pinus strobus)...

I have a little EWP "minima" that I've been wrestling with for many years now, so I share your exasperation.

http://www.horticopia.com/hortpip/Plants/html/018/P09718.shtml

https://www.havlis.cz/karta_en.php?kytkaid=763
Following up here...
I think 0soyoung ID'd this at 1st glance, and the 'minima' part is why it has remained
in such a short and stout stature without my hand influencing that aspect much at all really.

 

[clem]

You could be correct. Thanks for the input
There certainly was no graft scars when I purchased these from the nursery, and for all
practical purposes, appeared to me to be on their own roots they'd done such a swell job.
Do enlarge the picture in post #10 with this WP in the back of my pick up truck and you'll see what I mean.

I change my opinion seeing the first pic on post 10.. i didn't realise that it was the same tree... Maybe it isn't grafted and there is a natural smooth ring arround the trunk. I hope it will disappear with the time so that your tree get a natural cracked bark.

 

[Japonicus]

I change my opinion seeing the first pic on post 10.. i didn't realise that it was the same tree... Maybe it isn't grafted and there is a natural smooth ring arround the trunk. I hope it will disappear with the time so that your tree get a natural cracked bark.

You seem to have missed the post about that smooth ring.
A plant tag was left on too long acting as a tournicate. There is rough bark both above and below this ring.
The bark above the ring overlaps the bottom of the bottom branch territory, denying graft...I believe.
It may be roughly 20 yrs old.

 

[clem]

You seem to have missed the post about that smooth ring.
.

Yes i missed it, indeed. I hope this ring will disappear in the future

 

[Japonicus]

Yes i missed it, indeed. I hope this ring will disappear in the future

Oh man, you and me both. I wonder if I could score the bark vertically there to speed this along?
I hear you can put the trunk near a wall/building, and the shaded side will bark up. I dunno.
Thanks for the reply. Pines certainly leave a lot for me to learn on, and that's a good thing. I still learning

 

[0soyoung]

Oh man, you and me both. I wonder if I could score the bark vertically there to speed this along?
I hear you can put the trunk near a wall/building, and the shaded side will bark up. I dunno.
Thanks for the reply. Pines certainly leave a lot for me to learn on, and that's a good thing. I still learning

I don't think that scoring the flattened bark will work. I think the empty cork cells have been crushed and that it won't rebound, at least not to the point that it looks like the other. Even if I'm wrong, you've got several years experience with it now that shows it doesn't pop back out in any 'short' amount of time.

I have a black pine that I wrapped with self amalgamating silicone tape (stuff sold in auto parts stores for repairing leaky radiator hoses) that remained in place for 3 years (IIRC). When I removed it the bark was sorta flat and featureless similar to your tree's band. Now, after two (or maybe its been 3) years since the tape was removed, the bark is starting to look irregular again and like old JBP bark might show up in the not too distant future. My point is to consider similarly wrapping the nicely barked and banded lower trunk similarly to 'ruin' the nice gnarly stuff so that it matches (or nearly so) the band. Then, I think it will be more uniform (a plus) and will stay more uniform subsequently. I've never had such a problem, so I don't know that it will, in fact, work for repairing your tree's problem.

Of course, there's also the possibility of flaking off the flaky (desireable) bark until you don't notice the band.

btw, silicone transmits oxygen but not water. So it can remain in place indefinitely - the stem will still get vital oxygen. It is also stretchy, so it will expand with the normal expansion of the trunk/stem.

 

[clem]

Oh man, you and me both. I wonder if I could score the bark vertically there to speed this along?
I hear you can put the trunk near a wall/building, and the shaded side will bark up. I dunno.
Thanks for the reply. Pines certainly leave a lot for me to learn on, and that's a good thing. I still learning

It is said that putting wet sphagnum moss (and keeping this moss wet like for a air lawering) arround the trunk (with a plastic film to maintain that moss around the trunk) for a few months is good to make bark cracks because the bark is kept wet for a long time and when you remove the wet sphagnum, with the sun, the bark dries out, and cracks. That's the theory, i tried with a trunk of picea,and when i removed the moss, i saw the bark becoming dry and cracking a little but it wasn't very sensational :/
Anyway i guess that with time, your tree will make bark everywhere

 

[Japonicus]

Well @0soyoung @clem this is just a couple of ways a nice pine to be,cane be screwed up
when you don't know what you're (me) doing and get lazy too.
As Jimmy Page would say (Prison Blues) I been a bbbad bad bad boy baby.

 

[Japonicus]

@0soyoung sure would like to see some pics of your 'minima' and history on it.

 

[0soyoung]

@0soyoung sure would like to see some pics of your 'minima' and history on it.

It is in this thread, "P. Strobus 'Minima' - it has all the elements, but is there any hope?" I'm not going into how I made it get away from me. Unlike yours, I'm having a hard time finding any way back with it - maybe it is just that I cannot be honest with myself about my own problems (there's a word for that, but it escapes my memory right now).

 

[Japonicus]

It is in this thread, "P. Strobus 'Minima' - it has all the elements, but is there any hope?" I'm not going into how I made it get away from me. Unlike yours, I'm having a hard time finding any way back with it - maybe it is just that I cannot be honest with myself about my own problems (there's a word for that, but it escapes my memory right now).

Nice looking pine less the graft. Your foliage was tighter. That was 3 years ago almost and I dare say I bet it's not much if any taller.
I do like the gentle curving trunk. WP is feminine to BP and that works good there.

I copied the time stamp of 2:50 below here in this video (not the thumbnail showing). At that point, is the tree...
I coulda shoulda woulda had, had I been tuned in here back then and learned properly. Just being here don't mean ya learn
I have to make that happen...

 

[0soyoung]

Nice looking pine less the graft.

Pretty ugly, huh. I figured I could either hide it or 'scar-ify' it (i.e., affect some damage that carried across the union on the 'front', where ever that may turn out to be)

Your foliage was tighter. That was 3 years ago almost and I dare say I bet it's not much if any taller.

No, it isn't. but the trunk does seem to have thickened some (no where near enough). I'm disappointed that I got a nice wall of semi-ramified foliage, but that it is at the end of a 10-foot rolleyes long branch. I've toyed with whether it has a better front (from which that long branch is visually foreshortened). It does, but it is still not good.

I do like the gentle curving trunk. WP is feminine to BP and that works good there.

Yes, I agree. I bent it to make it that way.

The tree in your video clip nicely cashes in on the strobus foliage. Nicola Crivelli's EWP, which is also in the video, utilizes the long thin stems to maximum advantage - it has been my favorite EWP for some time now. These are two very different design schemes that seem to work, IMHO.

 

[Japonicus]

Pretty ugly, huh. I figured I could either hide it or 'scar-ify' it (i.e., affect some damage that carried across the union on the 'front', where ever that may turn out to be)
No, it isn't. but the trunk does seem to have thickened some (no where near enough). I'm disappointed that I got a nice wall of semi-ramified foliage, but that it is at the end of a 10-foot rolleyes long branch. I've toyed with whether it has a better front (from which that long branch is visually foreshortened). It does, but it is still not good.

View attachment 205334

Yes, I agree. I bent it to make it that way.

The tree in your video clip nicely cashes in on the strobus foliage. Nicola Crivelli's EWP, which is also in the video, utilizes the long thin stems to maximum advantage - it has been my favorite EWP for some time now. These are two very different design schemes that seem to work, IMHO.

Looking good there. Is that current? Same nice pot and nick/crack. Is that artificial light or Sunset casting a yellow hue about the needles?

Only problem with this dwarf, is similar to dwarf Hinoki, is if you were to go with the shortest tree within the tree for a trunk chop
well, you ruined an otherwise potential...+ the back budding character, or lack thereof. Except EWP pine would fair worse given needle length.
Speaking of which, in your thread you referred to your 'minima' needles as 1/2 the length of EWP. I've not got this one to reduce so well, some here n there,
and I believe your mention was characteristic not induced. Mine may be a variant of that, yet. Doesn't matter really. Sticking with strobus.

 

[0soyoung]

Is that artificial light or Sunset casting a yellow hue about the needles?

Nope. Something was going on with it last year, but it seems to have responded positively to a NEEM root drench this spring. NEEM is rumored to be effective against root aphids. I'll be repotting it in the next few weeks and look for signs of ____(?)____.

Speaking of which, in your thread you referred to your 'minima' needles as 1/2 the length of EWP. I've not got this one to reduce so well, some here n there, and I believe your mention was characteristic not induced.

Correct. I've done some 'therapeutic' things to it, a few years ago, that made every fascicular bud pop. While I was surprised the treatment didn't kill it, the needles, nevertheless, remained the same length. I have not tried JBP treatments on it like I have other p. strobus varieties, however. I presume it could make microscopic needles. I don't particularly care for the effect on other varieties. I discussed it Leo in N E Illinois and subsequently decided that it is a treatment that is too close to teetering on the edge of death. Instead, I got very interested in how to keep these buggers from 'running away' (you see, I have a pair that are a landscape feature in a confined space).

Sticking with strobus.

I admire your determination.

 

[Japonicus]

The needles are turning yellow in one large upper section of the tree. Hopefully, mostly 3 year olds, but some new needles worry me.
The yellowing shows up mostly under cloud cover. Is the upper part in the back of the tree.
The sister tree in the pot is still green all over, however, to be fair, it was pruned and thinned a little bit last year.