Would anyone be interested in getting a contest going where we're all either starting from a propagate, or from a collection w/i certain parameters?

[AaronThomas]

I like this idea.... Especially the $ aspect! Would Montezuma Cypress count?

 

[Cajunrider]

I like this idea.... Especially the $ aspect! Would Montezuma Cypress count?

I think definitely. I have a small Montezuma cypress growing in the yard. I think they are just as pretty as a BC if not more so. It's a tiny 1 year old seedling though.

 

[AaronThomas]

I think definitely. I have a small Montezuma cypress growing in the yard. I think they are just as pretty as a BC if not more so. It's a tiny 1 year old seedling though.

Excellent! I totally agree... I love my MC. Was going to start another this season so timing may be perfect!

 

[music~maker]

I don't think the species is important. What's important is taking something which has not been trained for bonsai and applying bonsai techniques to develop it.

I've judged the Reddit contest for several years. I find it quite easy to compare a black pine to an azalea to a ficus. I've been doing bonsai for 25 years. Some of you who have been doing it longer should find it easier to compare many different species and determine which has been developed by a skilled hand.

I'm a bald cypress guy. That'll likely be what I use. I just haven't found it yet. I'll go look in a week or three.

Brainstorming some rule suggestions:
Contest runs for 5 years
$20 buy-in on the first year, $10 buy-in in subsequent years
Each artist enters ONE tree, collected from the wild, a yard, or a non-bonsai nursery (Photos as proof)
If it dies, you're out
Each year, at the end of the year, independent judges score the trees and award a winner (See @music~maker for a good judging form)
Each year's prize pot is the $10 yearly buy-in, divided among top three trees
Last year's prize pot includes half the buy-in in the first year, That money is winner take all
So, the final year, the over-all winner will take a share of the 5th year buy-in plus half the initial buy-in

Maybe we'll allow side-bets with a portion going to the artist's pot.

Or we'll ditch the money aspect and just have someone do a Photoshop trophy for the winner.

Interesting idea on a multi-year contest. I've been toying with the idea of proposing a multi-year format for the reddit contest. Still thinking that one through ...

For this one, I like the initial rules suggestions you've come up with. Having an annual judging with annual prize pools is an interesting idea. Running the contest over 5 years is also.

That said, I do have some thoughts on yamadori vs. nursery stock I can share since we've discussed this ad nauseum in regards to the reddit contest.

• Not everyone has equal access to yamadori. Keeping the playing field even remotely level could be very challenging.
• One of the challenges with yamadori is the need for a recovery period. That was the number one reason why we chose not to allow it in the reddit contest - we didn't want to encourage people to kill trees by working them too soon. If you judge trees starting in year 1, you could be encouraging people to do too much too soon. Maybe it will work out that those who use nursery stock have a bigger advantage in the early years and those who use yamadori have a greater advantage in later years. Not sure, but something worth considering.
• We ultimately decided that developing nursery stock and developing yamadori were different enough things with different enough time frames that mixing them together in a contest format (at least our 1-year contest format) wouldn't work well. But who knows? Maybe in the longer format it just works itself out ... but usually people let yamadori rest for at least 2-3 years before working on it, so that's probably something that should be factored in.
• Another way to handle it might be yamadori only, three year recovery period, then 2-3 years of subsequent development and continue the idea of the annual contest starting at year 3 or 4. It starts to become a fairly long-term project at that point, so you'd need to get people who are very committed to sticking it out for the duration. I know during our annual contest, we have a fairly significant attrition rate just over 6 months. It would be interesting to see how many people would actually even make it to the end of a 5-6 year contest. You may end up just have someone win by default. =)

Anyway, just a few thoughts. More than happy to share my score card system with whoever ends up running this if it becomes a thing. I put a lot of thought into it and it's been "battle-tested" over four years and seems to work reasonably well. I'm sure it would at least make a reasonable starting point over starting from scratch.

Cheers

 

[AaronThomas]

Well... I might just be in this one alone but I have started with the competition!
Hoping this guy will makes it... The stock at the nursery consisted mostly of dead or on the way out trees.
This one seemed to have more life in it than most. Figured since this is only a 5-6 year competition... id get fairly drastic with it off the bat!
Pruned and chopped about 2 weeks ago. My current cypress has just started popping with buds... nothing on the completion tree as of yet!

 

[Crawforde]

I would like to play.
If this goes ahead I have collected a few BC over the last couple of weeks. I could enter one of those. Or collect a new one if in the ground if pics are needed.
Nursery trees should be available as well if the rules dictate.

 

[Cajunrider]

Well I was torn between a newly collected air layer of a bald cypress and a Virginia pine collected last week.

Everything is against the Virginia pine. It's supposed to be no good for bonsai. It's straight as a stick with no taper. It has terrible roots with horrible nebari. It may not live even. Well. I'm in with it.

 

[Crawforde]

I collected a BC last week.
It already has some green.
No roots to speak of and s bit of dead wood. If I don’t kill it it has potential.

 

[MimosaGroveMexia]

All my BC are still twigs.
Haven't found any "wild" around here to collect, so ended up buying a few online and collecting some seeds from the one growing in the local HEB landscape.
But a contest sounds pretty fun!

 

[Cajunrider]

All my BC are still twigs.
Haven't found any "wild" around here to collect, so ended up buying a few online and collecting some seeds from the one growing in the local HEB landscape.
But a contest sounds pretty fun!

It doesn't have to be bald cypress. Mine isn't.

 

[AaronThomas]

Thought it was a BC thing.....

 

[Cajunrider]

Thought it was a BC thing.....

I don't think it's the case. BC seems to be the prevailing species but the contest rules are fluid. This is almost like a no contest contest.

 

[JoeH]

can someone sum up this "contest" for all to get the rules? I have two BC.s but they have been in development for two plus years so they would not count. I do have a massive freshly collected Podocarpus that has recently started to push new growth so I have high hopes for it.

 

[Crawforde]

I’m not sure if the rules have been set yet. My understanding is that The contest was something like “take a picture of something you just dug up or grabbed at a nursery and take some pics and let’s develop them for a prize and or a judgment”
When do first read this I had just recently dug some cypress so I took a picture of one and entered it. I think.

 

[JoeH]

I’m not sure if the rules have been set yet. My understanding is that The contest was something like “take a picture of something you just dug up or grabbed at a nursery and take some pics and let’s develop them for a prize and or a judgment”
When do first read this I had just recently dug some cypress so I took a picture of one and entered it. I think.

OK, I thought it was just BC at first so I'd have to go out and find one. The Podo I got a couple weeks or so ago.

 

[Crawforde]

Collecting time is pretty much past it’s prime down here south of the Lake. Buds are popping on just about everything, that podo miss have to do.

 

[Crawforde]

Well I was torn between a newly collected air layer of a bald cypress and a Virginia pine collected last week.

Everything is against the Virginia pine. It's supposed to be no good for bonsai. It's straight as a stick with no taper. It has terrible roots with horrible nebari. It may not live even. Well. I'm in with it.
View attachment 230021

There might be a cool little shohin in there. If I squint just right.

 

[JoeH]

Collecting time is pretty much past it’s prime down here south of the Lake. Buds are popping on just about everything, that podo miss have to do.

It'll do, the thing is huge it was in a hedge row for over 20 years. Now its just a wait and see thing with it. I had to cut the roots back severely to get it in the bottom of the 35 gallon drum I used for a pot.

 

[Crawforde]

Today my BC got nocked over by the dogs.
Reported now. Luckily it was drizzling and a bit humid.
Hopefully no harm done and it’s now wired down in my special, secret, proprietary, scientific soil mix. Lol.

 

[Cajunrider]

Today my BC got nocked over by the dogs.
Reported now. Luckily it was drizzling and a bit humid.
Hopefully no harm done and it’s now wired down in my special, secret, proprietary, scientific soil mix. Lol. View attachment 232236View attachment 232237View attachment 232236

Let's hope all is well.
Mine just underwent a major operation as well. I hope it survives.