Wisteria and Pot Contest

[Tachigi]

Jared, I am so glad you gave Gimp a try. Your first try at doing a virt seemed to have worked well. Congratulations. Now where is the second submission

 

[cantstopsmilin]

Jared, I am so glad you gave Gimp a try. Your first try at doing a virt seemed to have worked well. Congratulations. Now where is the second submission

oh don't worry i have a pot already picked out I just need time to do another virtual school and hw keep me pretty busy, but tomorrow, definitely i will do another one it's exciting, and i feel accomplished ..... and i will admit i like messing around with the tools and trees lol ok, well thanks for posting this contest and that program, i will be making lots of virtuals in the future

 

[Rick Moquin]

My first one was a little more on the traditional style. I did have another classical design in mind but with only 2 submission I opted for this beautiful Dale Cochoy's selection, which I believe complements this tree admirably.

Wisterias are a difficult tree to pot for. Wisterias are normally displayed in bloom. This particular pot selection not only picks up the bark nicely but the bluish tints complement the blooms without being overly distractive. I chose this pot as I believe it will suit the tree nicely in both its spring and winter silhouette.

 

[johng]

Rick's pot

Even though I have my own entry...I like Rick's due to the fact that I own that pot...Bought it from Dale (or at least one that is very similar) at Carolina Bonsai Expo in the fall. So, I really think we ought to declare Rick the winner and Tom can just send me the tree
John

 

[No it's not...]

Thanks! i've never done a virtual before or ever used a program like photoshop, but this program worked well and was really easy to use anyways, here is my first sub (and my first virtual ever!) um... it is a pot i found at Sara Rayner's Bonsai Pottery and i thought it would work well. ... the pot in the picture may be a little small, but that is just due to my lack of skills, anyways, size can be adjusted as well as shape, as requests can be made... but here is my 1st virtual.

That's pretty awesome for a first try!

 

[Tachigi]

I really think we ought to declare Rick the winner and Tom can just send me the tree
John

send you the POT john...pot.....lol

 

[Attila Soos]

Sorry but I must disagree with some your statements. IMHO and experience wisteria seem to profusely flower only once they have become root bound, which can be achieved quicker in a smaller container. Often the key to making a wisteria bloom if it has been reluctant in the past is to disturb and remove roots, particually those big fat ones. They are basically invasive weeds and I have had success removing almost all of the roots except for some very fine ones when transplanting.

No arguments on them needing plenty of water in the summer. A little water deprivation and wilting doesn't really hurt them and may contibute to more prolific bloming. I think it's a survival instinct for them to bloom and set seeds if in danger.

You misunderstood my comment about needing a deeper pot.
In order for a wisteria to thrive, a shallow root pad (in a shallow pot) is a bad idea. That's because wisteria does not have the fine fibrous roots that many other trees have. They have thick roots that are looking to grow downwards.

Wisteria can indeed easily survive complete root removal. I have done it may time, with my wisteria. And, as every other plant, is more ready to bloom when in danger (this is a general mechanism for all plants).
But (here is the but), growing it in a very shallow pot will constantly stress the plant, and this will eventually weaken it (as constant stress does to all plants). It will not thrive in such a condition, although the stress will make it flower. And when growing a stressed plant, mistakes are much more costly than when they happen to a strong and healthy plant.

In addition, growing it in a very shallow pot, will cause the plant to dry out fast on warm days, which is again a bad idea, since wisteria needs a lot of water in the summer.....unless you are watering it twice a day. Not all of us have time to do multiple waterings per day. And if you don't have the perfect soil, this multiple watering leads to waterlogged soil and you basically boil the roots in a hot summer day.

For plants with deep and thick roots, and in need of lots of water, a deeper pot provides a more stable and healthy environment. We are not talking about survival here, but about thriving. When a bonsai is not thriving, but just languishing, it responds much slower, if at all, to bonsai training. I constantly have to remind myself that although bonsai is not a natural thing to do to a plant, it is still the best to provide conditions as close as we possibly can to the plant's natural tendencies. And the tree will reward us for that.

Long time ago there was a discussion on another forum (Walter Pall brought up the subject) about how certain trees, such as Japanese maple are so called "weak species", where after many years of bonsai culture, the plant gets weaker and weaker, and in order to re-invigorate it, it is a good idea to plant it in the ground for a year or two, before going back to the bonsai pot again. This is the result of constant stress, especially when for artistic purposes, we plant them in extremely shallow pots, because it looks so good. Other plants are less affected by it.

Sorry, for having to spell this out in such a long fashion, I hate when I have to defend myself, but I hate more when I am misunderstood. This is my experience with growing wisteria.

 

[Attila Soos]

This particular pot selection not only picks up the bark nicely but the bluish tints complement the blooms without being overly distractive. I chose this pot as I believe it will suit the tree nicely in both its spring and winter silhouette.

Rick, this is such a gorgeous pot! If I was the judge, you would be the winner.

 

[Rick Moquin]

You misunderstood my comment about needing a deeper pot.
In order for a wisteria to thrive, a shallow root pad (in a shallow pot) is a bad idea. That's because wisteria does not have the fine fibrous roots that many other trees have. They have thick roots that are looking to grow downwards.

Wisteria can indeed easily survive complete root removal. I have done it may time, with my wisteria. And, as every other plant, is more ready to bloom when in danger (this is a general mechanism for all plants).
But (here is the but), growing it in a very shallow pot will constantly stress the plant, and this will eventually weaken it (as constant stress does to all plants). It will not thrive in such a condition, although the stress will make it flower. And when growing a stressed plant, mistakes are much more costly than when they happen to a strong and healthy plant.

In addition, growing it in a very shallow pot, will cause the plant to dry out fast on warm days, which is again a bad idea, since wisteria needs a lot of water in the summer.....unless you are watering it twice a day. Not all of us have time to do multiple waterings per day. And if you don't have the perfect soil, this multiple watering leads to waterlogged soil and you basically boil the roots in a hot summer day.

For plants with deep and thick roots, and in need of lots of water, a deeper pot provides a more stable and healthy environment. We are not talking about survival here, but about thriving. When a bonsai is not thriving, but just languishing, it responds much slower, if at all, to bonsai training. I constantly have to remind myself that although bonsai is not a natural thing to do to a plant, it is still the best to provide conditions as close as we possibly can to the plant's natural tendencies. And the tree will reward us for that.

Long time ago there was a discussion on another forum (Walter Pall brought up the subject) about how certain trees, such as Japanese maple are so called "weak species", where after many years of bonsai culture, the plant gets weaker and weaker, and in order to re-invigorate it, it is a good idea to plant it in the ground for a year or two, before going back to the bonsai pot again. This is the result of constant stress, especially when for artistic purposes, we plant them in extremely shallow pots, because it looks so good. Other plants are less affected by it.

Sorry, for having to spell this out in such a long fashion, I hate when I have to defend myself, but I hate more when I am misunderstood. This is my experience with growing wisteria.

I have only had mine for a season and you pretty much summed it up. To things Wisterias like is a hard root prune or ample room to grow. They will indeed bloom if pot bound, but as soon as they bloom, repot with lots of room.

 

[Attila Soos]

I have only had mine for a season and you pretty much summed it up. To things Wisterias like is a hard root prune or ample room to grow. They will indeed bloom if pot bound, but as soon as they bloom, repot with lots of room.

The ample room for root growth is a good point. Since the Wisteria roots will fill up the available space very fast, it is absolutely essential that there is some room for future growth. Having very little room will cause the plant to essetially stop growing halfway through the growing season.

I was experimenting with this on another vine, the virginia creeper: after becoming potbound, the plant sends out leaves in the spring, but completely stops growing new branchlets, so it is impossible to increase fine ramification.

 

[Graydon]

You misunderstood my comment about needing a deeper pot.
In order for a wisteria to thrive, a shallow root pad (in a shallow pot) is a bad idea. That's because wisteria does not have the fine fibrous roots that many other trees have. They have thick roots that are looking to grow downwards.

Wisteria can indeed easily survive complete root removal. I have done it may time, with my wisteria. And, as every other plant, is more ready to bloom when in danger (this is a general mechanism for all plants).
But (here is the but), growing it in a very shallow pot will constantly stress the plant, and this will eventually weaken it (as constant stress does to all plants). It will not thrive in such a condition, although the stress will make it flower. And when growing a stressed plant, mistakes are much more costly than when they happen to a strong and healthy plant.

In addition, growing it in a very shallow pot, will cause the plant to dry out fast on warm days, which is again a bad idea, since wisteria needs a lot of water in the summer.....unless you are watering it twice a day. Not all of us have time to do multiple waterings per day. And if you don't have the perfect soil, this multiple watering leads to waterlogged soil and you basically boil the roots in a hot summer day.

For plants with deep and thick roots, and in need of lots of water, a deeper pot provides a more stable and healthy environment. We are not talking about survival here, but about thriving. When a bonsai is not thriving, but just languishing, it responds much slower, if at all, to bonsai training. I constantly have to remind myself that although bonsai is not a natural thing to do to a plant, it is still the best to provide conditions as close as we possibly can to the plant's natural tendencies. And the tree will reward us for that...

... Sorry, for having to spell this out in such a long fashion, I hate when I have to defend myself, but I hate more when I am misunderstood. This is my experience with growing wisteria.

Sorry Attila, didn't mean anything in my reply. I have been busy and may have not taken the time to read and absorb everything. My bad. Please don't misunderstand it as I really didn't want to to think you needed to defend yourself. I also feel bad you went over your three minute reply rule.

I was simply commenting on the wisteria I have growing and what I have observed. It rains so much here conditions could be completely different from your area. I am in a tropical "swamp" and I also water two to three times a day. I do have very fine and fibrous roots on mine but that may be from the soil, the watering and other factors. Does not really matter though.

Again so sorry, I didn't mean to stir the pot thread - Graydon

 

[Rick Moquin]

Again so sorry, I didn't mean to stir the pot thread

Oh Graydon how cliche! Ya may as well quit while your still ahead

 

[irene_b]

I see the 2 Wisteria trees as a Mother sheltering the Daughter from the Elements.
And since I do not have the skills for virts I asked My Daughter to assist me in this.
Irene

 

[grog]

I really dig the eggshell Irene used.

 

[Attila Soos]

Sorry Attila, didn't mean anything in my reply. I have been busy and may have not taken the time to read and absorb everything. My bad. Please don't misunderstand it as I really didn't want to to think you needed to defend yourself. I also feel bad you went over your three minute reply rule.

No problem,
Thanks for being really nice. The moist air, combined with warm climate and lots of rain do surely make a big difference in meeting moisture requiremens for plants.

Yes, I promised myself to absolutely stay out of on-line disputes of any kind. I felt terribly bad after those controversial threads form last week, they left a foul taste in my mouth. I realized that they bring the worst out of people, and this is not what I am looking for in bonsai. Trying to prove and argue for one's point is the worst waste of time that I can imagine, so I am not going to do the same mistake again.

Best regards,
Attila

 

[Graydon]

No problem,
Thanks for being really nice. The moist air, combined with warm climate and lots of rain do surely make a big difference in meeting moisture requirements for plants.

Yes, I promised myself to absolutely stay out of on-line disputes of any kind. I felt terribly bad after those controversial threads form last week, they left a foul taste in my mouth. I realized that they bring the worst out of people, and this is not what I am looking for in bonsai. Trying to prove and argue for one's point is the worst waste of time that I can imagine, so I am not going to do the same mistake again.

Best regards,
Attila

I agree about the disputes and again apologize. I was disagreeing but not meaning to argue (a difference in my world). I am sorry if I came across in a stern or arguing/fighting like way as that was honestly not my intention.

 

[johng]

send you the POT john...pot.....lol

Oh no, Tom... here is the logic... Rick wins the contest he gets the Erin pot. Since I am the owner of the pot he used in the virtual, naturally the tree should come to me so that virtual can come to fruition. Sounds like a perfect solution to me I promise to put the tree in the pot, post pictures, and sing your praises to anyone that will listen
John

 

[irene_b]

Oh no, Tom... here is the logic... Rick wins the contest he gets the Erin pot. Since I am the owner of the pot he used in the virtual, naturally the tree should come to me so that virtual can come to fruition. Sounds like a perfect solution to me I promise to put the tree in the pot, post pictures, and sing your praises to anyone that will listen
John

LOL Not a chance!
I used his pot and his tree
Mom

 

[cantstopsmilin]

okay, well here is my second submission this was fun, thanks again for doing this.. um.. i didn't have much time to work on this but whatever, it works, um.. the pot i used i think has some texture which i think works well with the trunk, and the color works well too, it also compliments the tree when it is flowering. um... i got the pot from John Pitt Bonsai Ceramics ... so thats about it here is my virtual

 

[irene_b]

Bump

Where are the rest?
Mom