Will these wire scars go away? Liquidambar styraciflua and elm.

[glacon]

Yesterday I purchased this charming liquidambar styraciflua root over rock bonsai from a reputable bonsai store in Los Angeles for a good bit of money. When I got it home I noticed there were some pretty large wire scars where the wire cut into the main branch. I thought, I wonder if the very similar elm I bought from them 3 weeks ago had the same problem. It was still wired so I carefully removed some of the wiring. It's pretty bad. The elm is at least a cork bark, so I imagine that may help? Thoughts? Both trees cost quite a pretty penny.

 

[Adair M]

Take all that wire off.

Wire on a deciduous only needs to stay on for a month to six weeks.

 

[glacon]

Will do. It's the store that left the wire on. I'm very concerned about the scarring going away. It's pretty deep and these are pricey trees. If it'll go away I'm good. If not should I try and return them?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Please add location to profile. Will not go away. However in time providing rough bark develops much will become inconspicuous or invisible. Some wire valleys can fill back in IF bark under wire is not dead yet. Personally enjoy watching scars heal or add character to trees. Also when trees in leaf much will be hidden.

 

[Adair M]

The valleys will fill in. Over time, the scars will fade. Maybe not fully go away, but will not be as apparent. Wire scars are just part of the hobby. Sure, we try to minimize them, but they are pretty much unavoidable. Think of them like brush strokes on an oil painting.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Think of them like brush strokes on an oil painting.

Nice analogy.

 

[glacon]

I appreciate the input. I was just so shocked at how deep some of them are. On the elm they seem to deform the branches. Not even sure I got good pics of those. The valleys have to go away completely. Just soften considerably. I think they were $1600 for both not including tax... so an investment from a high end bonsai nursery in LA. And they’re deciduous so I’ll be seeing the scars for some part of the year.

 

[leatherback]

I would not accept these trees for that price with this sort of scarring. (Buuut I cannot see the whole tree which might very well be an exceptional tree) Then again.. I school at a nursery where deep wiremarks are a reason to regrow branches.

In the end the question: Will you for the next 5-10 years be annoyed with the marks. Then return the tree. I know I would (Well.. I would have checked the tree before buying, because I have had this experience once).

 

[TomB]

If you bought it in person, and were able to look at the tree, I don't think you'd have any justification for taking it back.

 

[leatherback]

If you bought it in person, and were able to look at the tree, I don't think you'd have any justification for taking it back.

fair point

 

[sorce]

It's like bringing a woman home and right before you go yodeling in that valley, you get poked in the face with a tree.

You're supposed to check first!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[glacon]

If you bought it in person, and were able to look at the tree, I don't think you'd have any justification for taking it back.

In the case of the elm, with the wire on the tree the marks were not easily visible as they were covered. I am not experienced enough to know to look at it that closely before purchase (well I am now). With the other tree, it was a very rushed afair, it's a long story, but I was checking out with some others bonsai and they took a really long time finding that tree. I had not seen it yet, I was loading the others into my car, the broght it out, I had to rush to get back to work.

 

[glacon]

FYI, these are full shots of the trees. The elm is still full wired in its picture. Looking at the photo of the elm, I'd have never known it would have those kinds of marks. Usually I can pickup when wires are cutting in. Now you can see them in all their glory

 

[leatherback]

$1600

full shots of the trees

From the pictures I get a feeling you might consider not going to that nursery again, but I do not live there so do nto know what is available.
The trees might have that value to you. I think however that better trees should be possible for that money.

 

[glacon]

To be fair I have bought over 20 bonsai trees from them over the years. These are the only two I've had an issue with. I think the liquidambar was way over priced at $900. Since it was bought recently they probably would take that one back, especially since I have a history with them. The elm with the nastiest scars was bought three weeks ago, so less likely. I happen to really love that tree though. I just want to know if it's going to improve over time.

In LA there are not a lot of options for quality teees, and prices are high.

So back to my main question is, will these scars go away over time? Seems like from some of the posts they will.

 

[Maiden69]

In LA there are not a lot of options for quality teees, and prices are high.

There are plenty or reputable bonsai artists that sell online, delivery is top-notch.

 

[glacon]

There are plenty or reputable bonsai artists that sell online, delivery is top-notch.

Any recommendations? This is Yamagachi Bonsai Nursery. I have bought around 26 bonsai and several regular trees and plants from them over the years. These two are the only ones I have had issues with. House of Bonsai I find to be of much lesser quality and much less variety.

 

[hin175]

over 20-30 years, maybe...
I really don't like to comment on seller's prices, as each one need to live with all the costs associated with a shop, and that we (bonsaï enthusiasts) need professionals to provide us with many bonsai-related stuffs, in addition to trees themselves...

So I will only say I suggest you to try to take it back, as the time it would take the scars to disappear far exceeds the value the job they did could add to these trees. In brief, for that money, I would expect no wire scars on trees that size/shape.

If you keep them with the scars and except to have scar-less trees somewhere in the coming 10 years, you would need to cut these branches and regrow them. That's not what you're expecting in this price range...

 

[glacon]

over 20-30 years, maybe...
I really don't like to comment on seller's prices, as each one need to live with all the costs associated with a shop, and that we (bonsaï enthusiasts) need professionals to provide us with many bonsai-related stuffs, in addition to trees themselves...

So I will only say I suggest you to try to take it back, as the time it would take the scars to disappear far exceeds the value the job they did could add to these trees. In brief, for that money, I would expect no wire scars on trees that size/shape.

If you keep them with the scars and except to have scar-less trees somewhere in the coming 10 years, you would need to cut these branches and regrow them. That's not what you're expecting in this price range...

Thank you for your input. This post covers everything I was wondering. I will bring them both back in a few hours. Hopefully the owner is around. Like I said the one I bought Tuesday, I think I can convince them to take back. The one bought at the end of February would be more difficult. I really love that one, but the wire scars are really awful on it.

 

[Adair M]

First of all, deciduous trees should not be heavily wired. You really can’t move thick branches with wire. Thin, young branches, yes. The technique is the wire the thin, young branches, the ones that have not lignifed yet, and set them into position. Once they are lignified, remove the wire. That only takes a month to 6 weeks. Remove the wire before they start to scar up.

On your trees, they didn’t do that. Is it the end of the world? No. Those branches will heal to some extent, but the other thing I see is they are long and taperless. Which is a problem no matter that they have wire scars. What really needs to happen is some cut backs. Cut those branches back, and regrow them.

The “value” in those trees ARE NOT in the branches! The value is in there bases, the root over rock portions. The entire tops can be completely regrown in a year or so.

Stop stressing over the wire scars, and look to determine how the canopy can be, and should be restyled and regrown.

Don’t like the wire scars? No problem! Cut them off and grow new branches! Bjorn posted a video on YouTube recently where he showed a nice tree that had some wire scars, and he said the best remedy was just to cut them off and start over. Those are fast growing trees!