White stuff on the trunk

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Well, we have the Schengen treaty, this means you can buy all over Europe and let it be delivered to your home.
There's a lot of websites in Europe offering the stuff. I got mine off of ebay, but only because delivery was free.
As far as I know, you can't make bombs or drugs with the stuff, so I think there's no good reason to make it illegal anyways.

Copper sulfate (mixed with some dishwashing soap) can penetrate the wood of your tree where the fungus is growing. The copper and sulfate will inhibit it's growth for some time. The fungus is probably living off of the dead bark and not the live tissue, so even antibiotics will not have any effect. Dead wood doesn't transport water well, that's why you'd need the soap.
The trace element mixture I use is called Pokon groenhersteller. You could order that from the NL's too.

Otherwise, try some vinegar mixed with ethanol (50/50). It could do the trick. But the thing is that it's dead bark.. And the dead bark is going to be there for ever. The vinegar and ethanol are going to evaporate eventually. Copper is a metal, it only dissolves in water when it's wet and in an ionic form. This means it'll work for a longer period of time, possibly a full year.

 

[Matte91]

Well, we have the Schengen treaty, this means you can buy all over Europe and let it be delivered to your home.
There's a lot of websites in Europe offering the stuff. I got mine off of ebay, but only because delivery was free.
As far as I know, you can't make bombs or drugs with the stuff, so I think there's no good reason to make it illegal anyways.

True.

Copper sulfate (mixed with some dishwashing soap) can penetrate the wood of your tree where the fungus is growing. The copper and sulfate will inhibit it's growth for some time. The fungus is probably living off of the dead bark and not the live tissue, so even antibiotics will not have any effect. Dead wood doesn't transport water well, that's why you'd need the soap.
The trace element mixture I use is called Pokon groenhersteller. You could order that from the NL's too.

Thank you for a good explanation.

Otherwise, try some vinegar mixed with ethanol (50/50). It could do the trick. But the thing is that it's dead bark.. And the dead bark is going to be there for ever. The vinegar and ethanol are going to evaporate eventually. Copper is a metal, it only dissolves in water when it's wet and in an ionic form. This means it'll work for a longer period of time, possibly a full year.

I'm really confused whether I should use vinegar mixed with ethanol or copper sulfat mixed with soap or peroxide.
I'm not sure that the bark is dead yet. And I tried brushing the fungus away with a tootbrush, and that works fine. Don't know if the tree needs copper sulfat then? I wan't to start the treatment as fast as possible, i don't know if I can wait receiving copper sulfat from another country. Really confused what to do to be honest.

 

[0soyoung]

Fungicides painted or sprayed on a plant only affect spores (or fruiting bodies) on the outside of the plant. It does not get adsorbed into the tissues, so the infected tissue remains as a spore source for further infection, unless it is removed.

Because of this, the standard operating procedure for fungal infections is

1. remove the infected tissue
2. spray

 

[Matte91]

1. remove the infected tissue
2. spray

As you described in the previous posts?

 

[0soyoung]

As you described in the previous posts?

Yes.

I do not know it is a fungus. I just know the white stuff can be scrubbed away. Maybe it is nothing. I dunno.

If it is fungus, spraying will kill spores I've accidentally distributed by scrubbing off the white fruiting bodies. But the white stuff will likely reappear about this time next year. --> wait and see.

If it is just insects or insect eggs, NEEM should do it --> wait and see

Instead of peroxide and then NEEM, you could just apply lime sulfur as your friends recommend. It will deal with spores and eggs and many insects, all by itself. OR you could apply copper sulfate instead as @Wires_Guy_wires recommends. It will deal with spores and bacteria.


If you know that it is a fungus, remove all the bark that had white stuff (fruiting bodies) and apply your chosen fungicide ---> wait and see. Those white fruiting bodies might reappear about this time next year (around the area you removed or on the wood that was exposed). With a little good fortune, they will not.

 

[Matte91]

Yes.

I do not know it is a fungus. I just know the white stuff can be scrubbed away. Maybe it is nothing. I dunno.

If it is fungus, spraying will kill spores I've accidentally distributed by scrubbing off the white fruiting bodies. But the white stuff will likely reappear about this time next year. --> wait and see.

If it is just insects or insect eggs, NEEM should do it --> wait and see

Instead of peroxide and then NEEM, you could just apply lime sulfur as your friends recommend. It will deal with spores and eggs and many insects, all by itself. OR you could apply copper sulfate instead as @Wires_Guy_wires recommends. It will deal with spores and bacteria.


If you know that it is a fungus, remove all the bark that had white stuff (fruiting bodies) and apply your chosen fungicide ---> wait and see. Those white fruiting bodies might reappear about this time next year (around the area you removed or on the wood that was exposed). With a little good fortune, they will not.

Thank you for explanation in details. That helped a lot.

I think my plan are:

-Use peroxide. I bought it today and wan't to start the treatment right away. Can't wait to get other fungicides home.
-Use neem oil in a couple of weeks.
-Maybe use Lime sulfur before bud break??
-Wait and see.
-Give the tree a winter wash next winter to hopefully prevent the fungi coming back??

The problem is that the white stuff is located all the way round the trunk, at the soil line. So if I remove the bark, then the tree will die i think.

 

[Matte91]

@0soyoung
Well while I was treating the tree with peroxide, I found out that all the roots had the white stuff on it and the feeder roots looked like they were rotting. I cutted all the roots back to nothing. Now there are none feeder roots left. I repotted the tree into free drainage soil. Anything else I could do to make it produce new roots? The branches are still green under the bark. This is the best prebonsai i have, I hope I can get it to survive.

 

[Matte91]

Perhaps I should point out that the tree is some kind of cork Elm.

 

[0soyoung]

A healthy plant would regrow roots, come spring and having leafed out. Maybe your tree will. However, cutting roots on a newly collected tree is the last thing I want to do.

If this is indeed a fungus, you did the right thing. But we really don't know that it is and its appearance also makes me be nearly certain that it is not a fungus.

As far as I know, it is extremely unusual for fungal fruiting bodies to appear underground, on roots. You apparently didn't know this and/or didn't think about it. Fruiting bodies make and release spores and need to be above ground to accomplish their purpose in life.

So, my thinking now is that maybe it is insects; some kind of scale or wooly aphid. They suck sugary sap from the phloem tubes. So I would have sprayed with NEEM and maybe even scrubbed with a toothbrush as I sprayed. It is almost impossible to scrub the roots however. So I would pour the solution onto the roots (a 'root drench') if the tree is still in the pot I would immerse them in a can/bucket of NEEM solution deep enough to cover them.

All I would know at this point is that its probably not fungal. If it indeed is bugs, I've now (in my thinking) done what I can and have minimized my harm to the tree. It is always possible that this is some sort of normal exudation from this species or yet something else. Again, I dunno. Now I would wait and see. Even though I no longer think it is a fungus, I've sprayed a fungicide, so spores ought to be dead and so it shouldn't spread to any other of my trees. If is is some kind of aphid/scale, I've done what I can to kill them and their eggs. If I didn't get them all, white stuff will reappear in a few weeks or later on in spring. Maybe I spray NEEM again in a couple of weeks as a little more insurance. Then, does the white stuff ever come back? Do I see it appearing somewhere else or on another of my trees? Does the tree pop buds and start growing this spring? With each bit of additional information, I analyze the possibilities and ask myself, "what is my best response?".


I actually enjoy the quest, but
I don't like loosing trees,
Yet it happens.
Live and learn.
Don't panic!

This is a fun, huh?

 

[Matte91]

@0soyoung I don't know either what the white stuff were. I just know that the white stuff appered around the trunk at soil line and all the way down to the roots. The roots were black and slimy and had white stuff on it. There are no roots left now, only some taproot remaining, it got treated with peroxide and a toothbrush. I don't know but I think the problem started with wrong soil, poor draining in the pot. That resulted in root rot wich resulted in the white stuff. Possible?

I don't understand if you wan't me to apply Neem oil now and how then? The tree is back in the pot. Should i spray the trunk with Neem or what do you mean?

I don't think is so much fun hehe. Would hate to loose this one. It was the best of all the 4 elms i dug up I lost trees before. But yes I still need to learn to deal with it

 

[0soyoung]

I don't understand if you wan't me to apply Neem oil now and how then? The tree is back in the pot. Should i spray the trunk with Neem or what do you mean?

No. I was just going through 'my process' (of thinking) = what I might have done
Coaching not lecturing.

Mushy roots, especially if they stink, would be root rot and you would be correct about poor drainage and etc. A peroxide solution root drench will sometimes help.


I fear for your tree's future, but wait and see. I have a hard time giving up on a tree, even when I am absolutely sure it is as good as dead. I hang with it until the the last bit of green has disappeared. I rationalize my stupid behavior as wanting to be sure I am accurately reading the tree. Pretty sad, huh? But, it is what I do. The only good part of it is that I do it less and less each year.

 

[Matte91]

I must say I fear for the tree too. Looks like I can't do else than hope for the best. I was thinking if I could water it with some kind of rooting hormone or do something else to help the tree recover? Maybe I just have to wait and see what happens in spring.

Would it help if I put the plant in a humidity tent? I saw to recommended it to someone else, when I searched around.

A Little Issue (Root Rot)

I have a little issue. Someone threw a really bad condition bonsai at me. It was in a really loamy, waterlogged soil. After pruning only bad roots, it left only 1/2 of the original root system (including pruning roughly 1/2 the feeders) because of severe root rot. I have bonsai experience...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[0soyoung]

I must say I fear for the tree too. Looks like I can't do else than hope for the best. I was thinking if I could water it with some kind of rooting hormone or do something else to help the tree recover? Maybe I just have to wait and see what happens in spring.

Would it help if I put the plant in a humidity tent? I saw to recommended it to someone else, when I searched around.

A Little Issue (Root Rot)

I have a little issue. Someone threw a really bad condition bonsai at me. It was in a really loamy, waterlogged soil. After pruning only bad roots, it left only 1/2 of the original root system (including pruning roughly 1/2 the feeders) because of severe root rot. I have bonsai experience...

www.bonsainut.com

At this point, no. No tent, no watering (until the soil is dry-ish to the touch of your finger wiggled down into the substrate).

If, when it starts to leaf out, the emergent leaves just hang limply --> yes, make a humidity tent. This is the symptom of not enough water intake to keep up with the water lost to transpiration. Given this tree's history = not enough functional roots. Functional leaves are essential to growing roots!

Without leaves, comparatively little water is lost. A humidity tent is a good environment for mold, mildew, and other fungi to grow.


btw, if you ever need a humidity tent, misting the tent every 2 or 3 days with my favorite peroxide solution helps prevent mold, mildew, and other fungi.

 

[Matte91]

Roger that. We watt and see what happens in spring. I will keep you updated. Thank you very much for your time and help! I appreciate it a lot!

 

[0soyoung]

You are most welcome, @Matte91


I hope I haven't misled you. I just dunno for sure

 

[Matte91]

Not at all. You helped me a lot and taught me many things about the subject, that I will take with me in my bonsai journey. None of know what's wrong with the tree. But I think we done the best we could, under these circomstances. Sounds like someone is dying