LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
Cavalier? If that's the case I'm practically Machiavellian @Leo in N E Illinois Three season porch with poly'd windows. Don't know how these JBP's are alive!!
White needles on entire jbp
- Thread starter BeebsBonsai
- Start date
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Leave an Alberta spruce out here without wind protection and see what happens.
Bye,bye Alberta.
My Bristlecone pine got burned from wind,then died.
Wind protection is vital when it's cold.
One of the main enemies of hinoki cypress is cold wind.
BeebsBonsai
Shohin
I watered throughot the winter. Once a week or so. When i saw my top dressing get dry, i watered until saturation, then put the tree back.
jeanluc83
Omono
I'll say that this claim is dubious at best. In your climate you can get away with keeping trees outside all winter with minimal protection. Try doing this in zone 5 or 4 and see where it gets you.
I am in zone 6 where it rarely gets below 0. When I had access to an unheated garage I used it to overwinter my trees. The temperature stayed fairly constant and I checked on them 2-3 times a week to make sure they were not drying out. I did not have any losses due to overwintering.
I moved about 3 years ago and had to overwinter outside. I had about 20 JBP seedlings of which I've lost all but 3 of. They were strong going into winter but never woke up in the spring.
Maybe it is a semantics thing. If you are refereeing to a "garage" as a place where you keep your car in the winter I can see your reasoning. That would mean a big door is constantly being opened removing the benefit of temperature stability the garage offers.
If you are using "garage" to refer to an outbuilding that is not heated I'm not sure I understand your reasoning.
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
Someone been "smoking some dubious" in the garage......
Left a Tamarack out all winter. Sits where the snow piles from shoveling and such....it lived!!
Don't really have a "suitable yard" for outdoor route. But it's been done....ha....said "refer" too!
happy Friday, happy hour.
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
have to wait and see what the "root tips" tell us....
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I am hearing a lot of apples and oranges being tossed about in this thread 
First, let's agree on the basics:
(1) Trees go into dormancy and come out of dormancy slowly. Their cold hardiness does not come about instantaneously. Even the most cold-hardy tree can be severely damaged by extreme cold weather that comes too early or too late in the season.
(2) Roots are much less cold hardy than any other part of any tree. Generally not an issue with trees in the wild where roots extend deep underground, but a big issue with potted trees. Even removing trees from a bench and placing them physically on the ground provides some protection. Mulching them in on the ground provides more. Trees that might be cold hardy to Zone 5 in the ground may not be cold hardy to Zone 5 in a pot.
(3) When trees are dormant they do not need ANY sun. They can be stored in total darkness without missing a beat. Many small trees in the wild spend the winter buried under feet of snow - and are probably better for it than trees that have to deal with exposure and desiccating wind.
(4) Various trees have different cold-hardiness. In the case of the OP's tree, Japanese Black Pine is a semi-tropical: This pine grows at low to middle elevations (up to ca. 1,000 m above sea level) in the coastal hills and mountains of the islands of Japan and South Korea, where the climate is warm temperate (with little or no frost) and moist. I say this because for whatever reason I see sites here in the US claiming JBP is cold hardy to zone 5. Hmmmm. I will simply state that if you are wintering JBP bonsai in zones 7-5 I would definitely consider protection. Here in Southern Cal, they thrive in mild winters where the temps rarely get into the 30's. The same weather kills Japanese White Pines (on their own roots).
First, let's agree on the basics:(1) Trees go into dormancy and come out of dormancy slowly. Their cold hardiness does not come about instantaneously. Even the most cold-hardy tree can be severely damaged by extreme cold weather that comes too early or too late in the season.
(2) Roots are much less cold hardy than any other part of any tree. Generally not an issue with trees in the wild where roots extend deep underground, but a big issue with potted trees. Even removing trees from a bench and placing them physically on the ground provides some protection. Mulching them in on the ground provides more. Trees that might be cold hardy to Zone 5 in the ground may not be cold hardy to Zone 5 in a pot.
(3) When trees are dormant they do not need ANY sun. They can be stored in total darkness without missing a beat. Many small trees in the wild spend the winter buried under feet of snow - and are probably better for it than trees that have to deal with exposure and desiccating wind.
(4) Various trees have different cold-hardiness. In the case of the OP's tree, Japanese Black Pine is a semi-tropical: This pine grows at low to middle elevations (up to ca. 1,000 m above sea level) in the coastal hills and mountains of the islands of Japan and South Korea, where the climate is warm temperate (with little or no frost) and moist. I say this because for whatever reason I see sites here in the US claiming JBP is cold hardy to zone 5. Hmmmm. I will simply state that if you are wintering JBP bonsai in zones 7-5 I would definitely consider protection. Here in Southern Cal, they thrive in mild winters where the temps rarely get into the 30's. The same weather kills Japanese White Pines (on their own roots).
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LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
#jbponmetalrackonmyporch......
#mustbethecleanlivin'.......
#miracle
#mustbethecleanlivin'.......
#miracle
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I notice the animal on your beer can appears dead from inadequate winter protection
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Thank you for taking the time to state clearly and factually what is correct. I live in Zone 8b and still take some precautions for JBP in the winter based on the experience of a longtime Japanese nursery grower who lives and has grown JBP in Vancouver, BC. Zone 8 for over 35 years. Without taking precautions to place on ground and mulch in he states that he has lost JBP in the past due to cold snaps being longer than usual or at the wrong time. And his place is very low elevation below 100 ft above sea level.I am hearing a lot of apples and oranges being tossed about in this thread
(1) Trees go into dormancy and come out of dormancy slowly. Their cold hardiness does not come about instantaneously. Even the most cold-hardy tree can be severely damaged by extreme cold weather that comes too early or too late in the season.
(2) Roots are much less cold hardy than any other part of any tree. Generally not an issue with trees in the wild where roots extend deeply underground, but a big issue with potted trees. Even removing trees from a bench and placing them physically on the ground provides some protection. Mulching them in on the ground provides more. Trees that might be cold hardy to Zone 5 IN THE GROUND may not be cold hardy to Zone 5 in a pot.
(3) When trees are dormant they do not need ANY sun. They can be stored in total darkness without missing a beat. Many small trees in the wild spend the winter buried under feet of snow - and are probably better for it than trees that have to deal with exposure and desiccating wind.
(4) Various trees have different cold-hardiness. In the case of the OP's tree, Japanese Black Pine is a semi-tropical: This pine grows at low to middle elevations (up to ca. 1,000 m above sea level) in the coastal hills and mountains of the islands of Japan and South Korea, where the climate is warm temperate (with little or no frost) and moist. I say this because for whatever reason I see sites here in the US claiming JBP is cold hardy to zone 5. Hmmmm. I will simply state that if you are wintering JBP bonsai in zones 7-5 I would definitely consider protection. Here in Southern Cal, they thrive in mild winters where the temps rarely get into the 30's. The same weather kills Japanese White Pines (on their own roots).
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I do know that because of its innate resistance to salt spray, Japanese Black Pine was planted extensively in New England along the coastline to help stabilize dunes and eroding coastal hills. I don't know what "New England" means in this context - the articles I read did not state how far north they went. However, Japanese Black Pine is no longer used - not because of issues related to cold hardiness, but rather it has low resistance to native bugs and disease, and when planted in high densities, their survivability was low.
River's Edge
Masterpiece
I think that is a good example of why it is important to work with native species that prove to be suitable for Bonsai. It is exciting to see the progress being made with styling and refining some of the native species in various areas of North America. I am particularly fond of two species found locally, Shore Pine and Mountain Hemlock. One other in this area that has a lot of promise but has not attracted much interest is the sub-alpine fir.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I do it every year.
I live in a cold zone 4. Almost zone 3.
My trees are outside all winter long.
If I had a garage I would use it to keep my wife's car in.
jeanluc83
Omono
If I remember correctly you get fairly reliable snow and once it gets cold it stays cold. I get neither. I will have a day in the teens followed by rain in the 50s then back down to 0 again then repeat. An unheated garage/outbuilding dampens out the fluctuations and blocks the wind.
I'm also curious how many JBP you have.
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Not sure if the question was directed my way. But i have approximately 500 JBP currently ranging in age from year up. Approximately 15 in what i would call the refinement stage, (ages 15 to 35 years) that is the trunk is finished the branches are selected, major wiring is done and i am working on decandling primarily with smaller branching and foliage compacting. It The rest of the JBP are in rapid growth or development stages.Started growing them in 2010 with successive batches up until last year. No JBP seeds sowed since then. I also have a group of JRP that i started from seed in 2013.
We get wet snow three or four times in the winter and it sticks around for up to 7-10 days at a time. Normal cold temperatures are -5 Celsius with swings to 10 or 12 Celsius. The problem with JBP comes in when the temps are lower than -10 Celsius for a week or two if left out on the bench, rather than on the ground with mulch around the pot.
I use the greenhouse for trees that need more protection. It has a heater set to turn on at 2 degree's Celsius and maintain temperature between 2 degrees and five degrees Celsius.
jeanluc83
Omono
@Riversedgebonsai My comments were mainly directed to @M. Frary but thanks for the info. Out of curiosity what is your USDA zone?
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I worked in Connecticut for a few months.
The traffic was the worst I had seen.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
And I have no Japanese anything.
Not a tree ifrom there is zoned for here.
And didnt you say try leaving trees out in zone 5 or 4?
Not a tree ifrom there is zoned for here.
And didnt you say try leaving trees out in zone 5 or 4?
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Damn...were supposed to go to Oak Lawn for a Game today....then Golden Corral! You in? If it don't get rained out!
If you must keep JBP or anything else safe....
Talk to Jeff at THG...
Even I can afford what I last heard was the going wintering rate.
Well Worth it IMO.
@chicago1980 yes?
Sorce
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Zone 8b
