When wintering when do you open doors to shed...temps

[lordy]

I think the take home message from threads like this should be the following: There are many ways to winter trees. If you're having problems with one method, try another.

Many have success with the mulch/bury in snow method. And that's great. Around here, I've left some trees (mostly nursery stock) outside, mulched/buried in snow. Only to find severe rodent damage in the spring. We live in an agricultural area with lots of open land and lots of mice/voles/rabbits etc. So for me, that is not really an option. I tried placing trees on my barn floor with mulch and also had rodent damage. So for me, the best choice is to place the trees on tables (i.e. off the floor) in a small plastic covered frame shelter inside my barn. Because the pots aren't mulched, I provide supplemental heating to keep temperatures around 27/28 F. And that works very well.

For someone starting out or in a new area, I would recommend against putting all their prized trees outside in mulch...instead would suggest trying with a few trees or maybe nursery stock. Make sure your trees won't be the main course in a winter buffet!

Chris makes a good point about rodent damage. I sold about a dozen trees at auction this spring due to what I have decided was rabbit damage to branches. I will continue to keep mine outdoors, however, due to my lack of garage space. Cant put the Willys outside!

 

[GrimLore]

Chris makes a good point about rodent damage. I sold about a dozen trees at auction this spring due to what I have decided was rabbit damage to branches. I will continue to keep mine outdoors, however, due to my lack of garage space. Cant put the Willys outside!

I lost a lot of trees because of remodeling priorities... somehow it works out, is it a 41?

Grimmy

 

[stosh]

I'm going to put my bonsai's on a table in my shed. The good pre stocks will be in large storage bins buried in mulch. Hope this works, after losing a few last winter. Last winter in NY was frigid. I recently started a thread in, New to Bonsai forum: Dos and donts winter care.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Was looking at thermostats to set at 28F. Found one...but it works a lower amp heater. Since we had the hot tub wired out there. We can use the wire to put in an electric baseboard heater. And the electrician stated a special thermostat that runs on a 9 volt battery to put on it. Heading to electric place...electrician stated do not order online, but to order it through them. Though I would prefer to not use a battery type to control heat. Going to see if they have anything else. He's our sub contractor...he'll do right by us.

 

[GrimLore]

Not to forget what is the cooling plan And will you have a remote way to monitor when it is needed. I figure you're going to the supply place anyways

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

Not to forget what is the cooling plan And will you have a remote way to monitor when it is needed. I figure you're going to the supply place anyways

Grimmy

I can ask...but it's an electrical light house. I looked at a thermometer read out that sets an alarm off if it reaches the high setting. Figured I would open a few windows a crack. Figured the heater would rarely run...but a precautionary at this stage to put in.

The link...
http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/accessory/meters.shtml

 

[fourteener]

I plan on sealing up the vents in my cold room during the heart of winter (Jan-Feb-Early March) As it warms up, the plan is to keep it sealed up during the day and run a fan during the below freezing evening to keep pumping cold air in as long as possible. In an ideal world, I'll keep my cold room frozen until May 1st.

 

[coh]

Fourteener, in a thread some time back you mentioned that you insulated your cold room with some kind of foam/insulating board. Can you be more specific? Is it something you'd get at Lowes or Home Depot?

I've realized that the cold season is fast approaching and I need to reinforce my cold room...the boards I used last year (masonite type hardboard) warped due to moisture.

Chris

 

[Cadillactaste]

I plan on sealing up the vents in my cold room during the heart of winter (Jan-Feb-Early March) As it warms up, the plan is to keep it sealed up during the day and run a fan during the below freezing evening to keep pumping cold air in as long as possible. In an ideal world, I'll keep my cold room frozen until May 1st.

I plan on running a fan I think the entire time I have my setup going. Even on low...just for circulation. One similar to this one.

 

[fourteener]

Fourteener, in a thread some time back you mentioned that you insulated your cold room with some kind of foam/insulating board. Can you be more specific? Is it something you'd get at Lowes or Home Depot?

I've realized that the cold season is fast approaching and I need to reinforce my cold room...the boards I used last year (masonite type hardboard) warped due to moisture.

Chris

I used the pink foam board insulation from Home depot. I used the 2 inch as it is pretty rigid and has the highest r-value. I used the Gorilla brand duct tape and the expanding foam in all the interior corners and it held together very well. Not sure if your creating a box to put things in or a room to house things. I built a cube and put a 4x8 sheet on the floor with a piece of plywood over it(to be able to walk on it) Insulating the floor keeps the temp fluctuations to a minimum and things from freezing on the floor while it's to warm up high. In the case of my mini-room I did use 2x2's in three spots on a 4X8 sheet to give it a little more structure and a place to hand a light and thermostat.

Not sure if your heating it? I made the door out of a half panel of the foam board. It doesn't have to seal up real well. I don't mind getting some ventilation. Water vapor will come out and potentially freeze the door. Nothing that a little pounding won't cure, but I did have an extra piece in case my pounding messed up the door!!

 

[jeanluc83]

Farm Innovators TC-2 Cold Weather Thermo Cube Thermostatically Controlled Outlet

I posted this in a thread a while back. I have not used it but it seams like the on at 20 off at 30 model would be ideal. It also has two outlets allowing you to use a fan and a heater on the same thermostat.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Farm Innovators TC-2 Cold Weather Thermo Cube Thermostatically Controlled Outlet

I posted this in a thread a while back. I have not used it but it seams like the on at 20 off at 30 model would be ideal. It also has two outlets allowing you to use a fan and a heater on the same thermostat.

Thanks for the link...though...a fan would be needed when temps were 30+ so maybe not for a fan...in my case. Also...ideally I am shooting for 27/28F. But maybe for the fan if I decide not to run it all the time...with the 35-45? Something to consider...

 

[coh]

I used the pink foam board insulation from Home depot. I used the 2 inch as it is pretty rigid and has the highest r-value. I used the Gorilla brand duct tape and the expanding foam in all the interior corners and it held together very well. Not sure if your creating a box to put things in or a room to house things. I built a cube and put a 4x8 sheet on the floor with a piece of plywood over it(to be able to walk on it) Insulating the floor keeps the temp fluctuations to a minimum and things from freezing on the floor while it's to warm up high. In the case of my mini-room I did use 2x2's in three spots on a 4X8 sheet to give it a little more structure and a place to hand a light and thermostat.

Not sure if your heating it? I made the door out of a half panel of the foam board. It doesn't have to seal up real well. I don't mind getting some ventilation. Water vapor will come out and potentially freeze the door. Nothing that a little pounding won't cure, but I did have an extra piece in case my pounding messed up the door!!

Perfect, thanks! Mine is also a walk-in "room", a bit less than 10x10' in size. I framed it with 2x4's and draped 2 layers of plastic sheeting over it. However, mice and voles were able to get inside and did some damage. I added the masonite boards on top of the plastic and it seemed to help, but as I said it eventually warped pretty badly.

I do use a thermostat and heater to keep it around 27-28 F. The structure is inside my unheated barn, so it is already somewhat protected from the elements. Seems to hold the temperature pretty well, didn't suffer any winter losses.

Chris

 

[fore]

Ditto on the 2" pink foamboard in my hoophouse, w. 1500wt heater and lg industrial heater with controller. Finally got it dialed in now in my upcoming 5th winter now. A lot of good ideas everyone.

 

[fourteener]

Perfect, thanks! Mine is also a walk-in "room", a bit less than 10x10' in size. I framed it with 2x4's and draped 2 layers of plastic sheeting over it. However, mice and voles were able to get inside and did some damage. I added the masonite boards on top of the plastic and it seemed to help, but as I said it eventually warped pretty badly.

I do use a thermostat and heater to keep it around 27-28 F. The structure is inside my unheated barn, so it is already somewhat protected from the elements. Seems to hold the temperature pretty well, didn't suffer any winter losses.

Chris

I offer a banquet table of free food inside my garage and inside my cold frame!! Years ago I did get a tree or two girdled from some little critter. The free food has helped me a lot.

 

[coh]

I may try that this winter. I put mothballs around the outside of the shelter last year and that had no effect. I'd like to exclude rodents from the shelter if possible because I've noticed that they like to store food in pots (that's what they've done with poison bait in the past), so even if they're not eating the trunks or roots, they can be causing damage by digging.

 

[KennedyMarx]

Coh, an idea you could try is buying a few sheets of plastic screen like used for bonsai pots, or maybe galvanized mesh from the hardware store if you think you need that amount of protection, then wiring them over the soil surface of the pots to protect them from rodents.

 

[coh]

Coh, an idea you could try is buying a few sheets of plastic screen like used for bonsai pots, or maybe galvanized mesh from the hardware store if you think you need that amount of protection, then wiring them over the soil surface of the pots to protect them from rodents.

Thanks for the suggestion. I already wrap the trunks of my better specimens...would rather just exclude the critters if possible.

So far damage has been limited to trees that were on the ground or on very low stands. The varmints haven't climbed up on the tables (yet).

Chris

 

[lordy]

Coh, what about making a bit of a pen out of 1/4" wire mesh? Either with framework or not, if you just had walls on your barn floor (assuming it's flat wood not dirt) that should keep out mice and larger. FWIW, I keep a boat outside at my place in Maine for about 11 months a year. It is outdoors with tarps to keep out the snow and pine needles. One year squirrels gained entry to the tarp tent and had a literal feast of pine cones. Imagine about 400 pine cones that had every little pad torn off, and all that's left on the cone is the stem. It took about 2 hrs to clean up that mess. The next time I tarped it I put moth balls in and it worked like a charm. Not sure why it didnt for you, but I guess I'm glad I dont have to deal with NY rodents!!

 

[coh]

Coh, what about making a bit of a pen out of 1/4" wire mesh? Either with framework or not, if you just had walls on your barn floor (assuming it's flat wood not dirt) that should keep out mice and larger. FWIW, I keep a boat outside at my place in Maine for about 11 months a year. It is outdoors with tarps to keep out the snow and pine needles. One year squirrels gained entry to the tarp tent and had a literal feast of pine cones. Imagine about 400 pine cones that had every little pad torn off, and all that's left on the cone is the stem. It took about 2 hrs to clean up that mess. The next time I tarped it I put moth balls in and it worked like a charm. Not sure why it didnt for you, but I guess I'm glad I dont have to deal with NY rodents!!

Might work on squirrels (not a problem inside the barn), but doesn't work on mice and voles! I even set up one of those ultrasonic repellent devices...I've seen mice walk right over it.

The barn floor isn't really flat, it's concrete but the concrete has disintegrated a bit in places. So I'm going to have to use some of that sprayable foam insulation to fill the gaps. It's amazing how small of a hole a mouse can get through. A layer of mesh might help...will keep it in mind.

Chris