When to do first heavy prune on nursery shohin trident?

[keegan]

Hi! Maple newbie here.

I've read a lot about maples, and just got my first little trident. I live in Los Angeles, where maples are a little more challenging in our heat than other places.

My question: This is quite a tall tree. I would like it to be a compact little shohin with a crown that flows down and to the left over the exposed roots. When should I cut this back hard? From what I've read, it seems like fall would be the best time (according to Peter Adams & Peter Warren). But as it is New Years and I just acquired this tree, I've missed that window. If I wait until early spring, maybe the tree will bleed a ton?

Is it best to cut it back hard now? (I would cut it to the first or second node on every branch--that's how much I want to compact it).

And what about wiring? Can I wire now too?

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Keegan

 

[queenofsheba52]

Hi Kegan,

I live in Michigan so my advice won't help you any because your climate is completely different.

Maybe @Smoke or @bonsainut will chime in.

I hope you have lots of fun with your trident!

 

[Smoke]

Hi Keegan. This looks like a tree from House of Bonsai. Vicky Lee brings this kind of stuff in all the time. I wish I had that right now.

I would wait till spring. It will not bleed, tridents don't. This is not a sugar maple. As long as you cut back to a bud you will be fine it will push. About the middle of Feb. is good for you down there. Your about two weeks faster than me in Fresno.
As far as what to cut, your on your own pal!!

 

[keegan]

Indeed, I did get it from vicky! (along with a killer pomegranate)

Ok, good to know. I didn't ready anywhere that tridents don't bleed. Sounds good!

Thanks!
Keegan

 

[Bonsai Nut]

About the middle of Feb. is good for you down there.

Confirming that early Feb is normally when my early deciduous start to push - depending on the season we're having. Some of my late deciduous will take a month longer.

Having a strange winter right now... some of my late deciduous have not even dropped all their leaves yet... and this isn't just me. Deciduous trees in the landscaping around here (California sycamore, jacaranda, sweet gum) are not dropping leaves like normal. Usually they would be barren at this time of the year.

 

[Smoke]

Having a strange winter right now... some of my late deciduous have not even dropped all their leaves yet... and this isn't just me. Deciduous trees in the landscaping around here (California sycamore, jacaranda, sweet gum) are not dropping leaves like normal. Usually they would be barren at this time of the year.

Me too....



Just depends where it is on the bench....

 

[keegan]

No kidding. Some crape myrtle in my front grow area are without leaves. Others are about to flower again!

 

[Shibui]

I would wait till spring. It will not bleed, tridents don't.

This is very interesting. Down here tridents do bleed quite a lot if pruned late winter or early spring. In most cases it stops within 48 hours though. I now avoid that period where possible and do most maple pruning in the first half of winter or after the leaves have opened.
I have noticed, however, that maples that are root pruned do not bleed. In the past when I have had a tree weeping badly after pruning a quick root prune and repot stops it almost instantly.

 

[Smoke]

This is very interesting. Down here tridents do bleed quite a lot if pruned late winter or early spring. In most cases it stops within 48 hours though. I now avoid that period where possible and do most maple pruning in the first half of winter or after the leaves have opened.
I have noticed, however, that maples that are root pruned do not bleed. In the past when I have had a tree weeping badly after pruning a quick root prune and repot stops it almost instantly.

What is quite a lot? Quarter teaspoon, half teaspoon? Is it water? Maples don't have pitch, which is known as bleeding.

Ficus bleed and then its never more than half a teaspoon at the most or less. I even have Japanese maples in my yard and prune them throughout the year, even in winter and have never seen a maples bleed more than a couple drops and its just water. I have cut maples as large as three inches across with out bleeding. Whats up south of the Equator?

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Confirming that early Feb is normally when my early deciduous start to push - depending on the season we're having. Some of my late deciduous will take a month longer.

Having a strange winter right now... some of my late deciduous have not even dropped all their leaves yet... and this isn't just me. Deciduous trees in the landscaping around here (California sycamore, jacaranda, sweet gum) are not dropping leaves like normal. Usually they would be barren at this time of the year.

Same here. Abnormally warm winter. All my deciduous are still in leaf and at least one, the mulberry, is pushing a new leaf. I’ve hard pruned one trident and it seems to be pushing new buds as well. In the landscape it varies. Some are still in leaf others have defoliated.

 

[Shibui]

Ficus bleed and then its never more than half a teaspoon at the most or less. I even have Japanese maples in my yard and prune them throughout the year, even in winter and have never seen a maples bleed more than a couple drops and its just water. I have cut maples as large as three inches across with out bleeding. Whats up south of the Equator?

What's up indeed? There is a very strong recommendation not to prune maples from mid winter through to leaves opening because of this issue. If cut at the wrong time I see clear liquid dribbling down the branch, often all the way to the base of the tree. Hard to quantify when you don't collect and it seems to vary depending on conditions and tree. maybe this is related to our much milder winters?

Maples don't have pitch, which is known as bleeding.

If you prick me do I not bleed? Who decided that only resinous trees can bleed? Surely clear liquid oozing from a wound is just as much bleeding as latex weeping from a cut ficus?

 

[coh]

Japanese maples definitely leak or ooze or bleed sap (whatever term you want to use, water with sugars and other stuff in it) when I prune in early spring. Some bleed quite a bit, especially on larger
cuts. I can't say that I've ever noticed that it impacted the health or performance of the tree in any way, though.

 

[Smoke]

What's up indeed? There is a very strong recommendation not to prune maples from mid winter through to leaves opening because of this issue. If cut at the wrong time I see clear liquid dribbling down the branch, often all the way to the base of the tree. Hard to quantify when you don't collect and it seems to vary depending on conditions and tree. maybe this is related to our much milder winters?

If you prick me do I not bleed? Who decided that only resinous trees can bleed? Surely clear liquid oozing from a wound is just as much bleeding as latex weeping from a cut ficus?

My advice don't cut it. Simple as that. I am very happy to find that I have magic trees.

 

[Smoke]

Japanese maples definitely leak or ooze or bleed sap (whatever term you want to use, water with sugars and other stuff in it) when I prune in early spring. Some bleed quite a bit, especially on larger
cuts. I can't say that I've ever noticed that it impacted the health or performance of the tree in any way, though.

I was under the impression we were talking about a trident?? Did I miss something??

 

[Smoke]

Does anyone think that water and sugar bleeding out of maple would hurt it. There is a whole industry in the Northeast US that bleed out maples on a daily basis with no adverse effects. Does anyone really think that that if this was harmful to the tree it would be done daily every year for the life of the tree?

Just a question to ponder in the new year people......

 

[coh]

I was under the impression we were talking about a trident?? Did I miss something??

Apparently...

I even have Japanese maples in my yard and prune them throughout the year, even in winter and have never seen a maples bleed more than a couple drops and its just water. I have cut maples as large as three inches across with out bleeding. Whats up south of the Equator?

People were talking about tridents until you brought up Japanese maples, then Shibui picked up on it and here we are. Such is life.
(And regarding tridents, no I've never noticed that they "bleed" to any significant degree)

 

[Smoke]

I've never seen either bleed. Any time of year. Since the OP is in LA and I am in Fresno, and since I work with lots of trident maples I feel I am more than qualified to tell the OP to cut his trident whenever he feels like it. But in the new spirit of 2019 and my kinder gentler disposition. Who cares. Cut it and find out then he will know ....right...

 

[0soyoung]

If you are worried about bleeding, just don't cut your fingers.

 

[garywood]

As an aside ;-) context ;-) 250 million years ;-) personally, I would think that if 'bleeding" was a detriment, either that or the species would be gone ;-)

 

[coh]

I've never seen either bleed. Any time of year. Since the OP is in LA and I am in Fresno, and since I work with lots of trident maples I feel I am more than qualified to tell the OP to cut his trident whenever he feels like it.

And I'm not questioning your qualifications. I was just offering my observations about bleeding in maples as some of the discussion had moved in that direction (primarily because of what you had written earlier). That happens in discussion forums from time to time.