What’s Wrong With People - Eastern Leaf Theft

[ShimpakuBonsai]

Talking about any other religion than bonsai should be forbidden on this forum.

 

[Maiden69]

Stop spreading your fairy tales. This is a bonsai website. Lets talk trees not personal life convictions.
YOUR life choices do NOT make those of other people wrong. Open your eyes and see the misery spread in name of religions before you start spewing your venom.

Just look at the large scale supression and suffering caused:

Explained: Shariah law, and what it means for Afghan women

Afghanistan crisis: Here are the basics about Shariah and how it could factor into the Taliban’s treatment of women.

indianexpress.com

Afghan women to be banned from playing sport, Taliban say

National cricket team included in prohibition, as interim government containing no women starts work

www.theguardian.com

Curtains separate male and female Afghan students as new term begins under Taliban rule | CNN

A flimsy gray curtain divides a university classroom in Kabul in two – on one side sit the male students, on the other the female students, wearing hijabs.

edition.cnn.com

Why the Catholic Church can’t put the clergy sex abuse scandal behind it - The Boston Globe

It probably never will, at least under the current generation of church leaders.

www.bostonglobe.com

Pope Francis and homosexuality: an analysis – DW – 10/23/2020

Though Pope Francis has endorsed same-sex civil unions and LGBT+ rights, he continues to perpetuate discrimination against LGBT+ people within the clergy and laity. What's behind the contradiction?

www.dw.com

How Catholics around the world see same-sex marriage, homosexuality

Pope Francis made news recently by voicing his support for same-sex civil unions. The statement struck observers as a shift for the Vatican.

www.pewresearch.org

All you are citing here are fanatical expressions of religion, and/or facts that are seen as "discrimination" now.

Muslim Sharia law is an extremist law, there are localities here in the US that have tried to implement it and have been shutdown. I bet they still do it under the table, but if they get caught they will be dealt with. Clergy sex scandals need to be brought up and dealt with the extent of the law... this in unacceptable.

This quote from the movie "The Da Vinci Code" is on point. Religion is not the problem, humans without morals is.

Faiths… all faiths… are admonitions that there is something we cannot understand, something to which we are accountable. With faith we are accountable to each other, to ourselves, and to a higher truth. Religion is flawed, but only because man is flawed.

If you were to live by the example Christ gave, none of this crap would happen. There was so much change since AD (After Dead), if you read the Old Testament, both sides Muslims and Judaic sects applied the same rules Sharia law enforces.

I love Asian culture, yes there are issues like this as well, but they are not as much as here. Shinto, Buddhism, Taoism, etc... are religions that believes in Karma, spiritual, physical and metaphysical beliefs.

Imagine how the world will be if people followed the below quote.

Taoism is a philosophy of harmony with nature by way of use of principles like acceptance, simplicity, compassion, relying on experience, wu wei, living in the moment beside others.

 

[hinmo24t]

 

[August44]

This is what happens when people/nations turn back on God.

I will not get involved in the conversation except to say that I most certainly agree with this. Those who know and believe, understand what is being said here. Those who don't might just look back on the last 10 years and remember what is now acceptable in the world that was never acceptable before. The Book says we will head downhill, and we most certainly are IMO. People steal, lie, commit fraud, and corrupt society and seriously believe it's ok. Trust? Really? You kid me of course.

 

[penumbra]

Same as it ever was.

 

[Shogun610]

Bummer that really sucks, I guess not all are able to have large areas at their residence and rely on off site places to store their materials…

People=shit

 

[Dzhokar]

Hope the trees survive and are recovered.

I really don't think that most of these thefts are by educated (in bonsai) practitioners.
If they were they'd know that it's like stealing a unique jewel.
You can't sell it as is and re-cutting one destroys much of the value...
I mean even if you regrew all of the branches the trunks are still recognizable...
Not to mention the time and expertise required...

And who are they going to show it to? No one reputable.

 

[rockm]

Um, how is all this religious discussion actually helping the victim of a burglary? Seems to me the ethical, moral horse has already left the barn. Chasing it is pretty futile if you're trying to help with recovering the trees. For crying out loud...

 

[Paradox]

I will not get involved in the conversation except to say that I most certainly agree with this. Those who know and believe, understand what is being said here. Those who don't might just look back on the last 10 years and remember what is now acceptable in the world that was never acceptable before. The Book says we will head downhill, and we most certainly are IMO. People steal, lie, commit fraud, and corrupt society and seriously believe it's ok. Trust? Really? You kid me of course.

Edit, cause getting into the weeds

 

[rockm]

Hope the trees survive and are recovered.

I really don't think that most of these thefts are by educated (in bonsai) practitioners.
If they were they'd know that it's like stealing a unique jewel.
You can't sell it as is and re-cutting one destroys much of the value...
I mean even if you regrew all of the branches the trunks are still recognizable...
Not to mention the time and expertise required...

And who are they going to show it to? No one reputable.

There are more than a few reasons people steal bonsai. This theft looks to me like it was menu-driven, probably by someone who new what they were looking for. that could mean the trees will wind up in a private collection (unaltered, since that's why they were stolen). OR someone knows a knowledgeable buyer for the stolen trees who won't look to hard at where they came from....

 

[Dzhokar]

I wonder if Bonsai has ever inspired grand scale institutionalized murder, destruction of cultures and societies, the theft of children's innocense, or the harnessing of entire populations to build wealth for the few?
No, only two things come to mind that do this. Religion and Government....

Feeling so ranty!

 

[John P.]

Getting a bit full of yourself

Hardly. Just 19 years of school, including a graduate degree. Facts.

 

[hinmo24t]

Hardly. Just 19 years of school, including a graduate degree. Facts.

good for you. but dont discredit yourself with subjectivity or absolutism

didnt see initial post, did you drop stats aside form years in school an degree level?

 

[John P.]

good for you. but dont discredit yourself with subjectivity

I haven’t. But I certainly need to learn that I shouldn’t try to have a sensible discussion with people who believe in fairy tales designed to subjugate and direct the masses.

 

[hinmo24t]

I haven’t. But I certainly need to learn that I shouldn’t try to have a sensible discussion with people who believe in fairy tales designed to subjugate the masses.

no doubt. if you do, have to bring objectivity into it

https://www.jibc.ca/sites/default/files/community_social_justice/pdf/cl/Objective_vs._Subjective.pdf

 

[Paradox]

Hardly. Just 19 years of school, including a graduate degree. Facts.

I also have a graduate degree and years of learning/experience. Its not important to the discussion honestly but thought I would put it out there so you know you arent the only one here that is "edumacated"

While I agree fully that people throughout history have justified some pretty heinous behavior because of religion, if you really look into those religions, this is typically an extremist interpretation of said religion. There is probably no religion exempt from an extremist take on it.
If you go back to the base religion and really look at the original philosophy, you'll find that for the most part, those religions do not condone the extremist behavior/acts.

 

[Shogun610]

Sheesh now we’re discussing who can have opinions about morality and it’s roots based on how educated you are? Based on the fact that people on this site are participating in the art/ craft of bonsai here should be enough, to show we are beyond just the means of survival and rudimentary education.

 

[Paradox]

Sheesh now we’re discussing who can have opinions about morality and it’s roots based on how educated you are? Based on the fact that people on this site are participating in the art/ craft of bonsai here should be enough, to show we are beyond just the means of survival and rudimentary education.

No, education level is not important to the discussion as I stated in my post.
The person I quoted was throwing around thier education level as if it matters and as if their education was somehow a rarity here, which its not.

 

[John P.]

The Bible thumper was the one who thought God belonged in this thread.

Plenty of religious people are educated. Plenty are not.

But my point of bringing up education is that my thoughts on this matter stem from more than one book. Diversity of thought is a good thing.

 

[Shogun610]

No, education level is not important to the discussion as I stated in my post.
The person I quoted was throwing around thier education level as if it matters and as if their education was somehow a rarity here, which its not.

Yeah I wasn’t targeting you