Western Display Concepts

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Wow... what a fascinating bunch of discussion!

For my part... and maybe I didn't present this well, though some clearly caught my drift... my idea was to get inspirations for western symbolism that could be used in alcove display. I'm very glad that I painted the images well enough to evoke a response from some... and that was my goal.

I love traditional formal display. I don't mind playing within the rules... what I am seeking is relevance. How to make a display that will speak to the viewer because it's conceptual foundations are not rooted in knowing that a leaping carp (to use the scroll image Al recently posted) means perseverence... but rather knowing that some other image - natural or domestic - holds that same meaning. Can't think of one off the top of my head though...lol

I appreciated Mark offering how that same image of wonder in my description had a corrolation to a Japanese image of the tiger's foot prints. I could appreciate that mental picture. But without knowing that it symbolized the same idea... I wouldn't be able to appreciate it to the depth that I could the image that I crafted for myself.

I'm not about reinventing the wheel... I'm about making the appreciation of display accessible on a subtle level to those who have not been steeped in Japanese traditions and meanings.

Do we have the complexity to do it to their level...? I don't think so... It's like Gary said... we are not an isolated nation - have never been... we are a constant influx of change and various points of view. But I think we can put our feet on the path to defining some of these complex ideas and symbols by talking about what's meaningful to us.

Who would know that as a child on the island of Guam I read the book "A Snowy Day"... and that I wrestled with understanding what that little girl in the book was up to as she made her way through the snow... but was fascinated none the less. When I came to the States at 8 years old... I vividly remember the first time I saw snow fall. I remember the depth of my joy at being able to make a snow angel like the little girl did... and to this day I do not fail to make one every time I get near snow. As scary as that may be. lol But I don't care... I get wet... I'm freezing.. as I get older I get stuck more... lol but my wonder... the child in me... feels the joy all over again. Being intimately connected to the concept let me design that display image... and it allowed me to share it with you... even if only in words. If another person can relate to it... then it's a successful display, and because there was no cultural barrier to understanding it, a western one.

As to the idea of modern art displays... they did that last year at the GSBF convention. It was a wonderful way to view the trees... though it was more like an art gallery and less a group display like Walter's. You had trees and stones displayed on white stands of varying heights. And wonderously you could go all around nearly every tree. It was a marvelous way to display the trees really... but there was no attempt to do more than appreciate the individual trees or stones... there was no story to get connected with other than what the trees themselves could tell. Fortunately, being a Californian display, there was a lot to be told... because the trees were beyond excellent. I'll attach a few for those who were not there.

In any case... I am enjoying the discussion greatly. I thank everyone for contributing.

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

 

[cbobgo]

So to summarize, we've seen/talked about essentially 4 ways to formally display bonsai:

1. Traditional Japanese Tokonoma 3 point display
2. 3 point display with Western cultural elements
3. Statuary/ pedestal display
4. Mixed media display (tree + abstract painting or photograph)

I think all of these are valid ways to display bonsai. Each have their strengths and weaknesses.

I spent a fair bit of time the last 2 days trying to think of any other traditional, formal, "Western" ways of display. Since there is no long tradition of displaying bonsai in the West, I tried to think about what other kinds of things have been displayed that we could maybe translate to bonsai. Statuary was already done, so that was out.

I let my mind wander a bit and started thinking about other artistic or beautiful plants that are displayed, and came up with cut flowers, orchids and topiary. Was there anything about the way those have been displayed that could be used in bonsai?

I was hoping to have some excellent parallels, but I came up with very little. From the flower and orchid shows I've been to it seems that the focus is all on the blooms. What they are placed in or where they are placed seemed to have very little weight. The exception to that is the art of flower arranging, where they do obviously spend a lot of thought in getting the visuals just right, including the container. But they tend to just sit them all on tables without any other accoutrements.

Topiary is almost always displayed in an outdoor garden, where they are grown. I could find no evidence of a "topiary contest" or "topiary convention" where people brought their topiaries to be judged.

So I've come up empty. Anybody else have other ideas?

- bob

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Do we need more options? I think we have not managed to refine 2-4 to any great degree... so trying to concentrate on that would seem the better task.

Though I do applaud whole heartedly your "out of the box" approach. We might however find ourselves in the tricky space of disrespecting the trees if we stretch much further than those four... all I can think to add is hanging one up like that new fad running around of growing tomatoes upside down.

Warmest regards,

Victrinia

 

[Smoke]

One of the things I am most taken with in this discussion is the extraordinary use of the word DISPLAY.

While the word can be interchanged and used to mean;

a bonsai display, like seen in an art exhibition or a club exhibition

or

a bonsai display, like seen in Japan where trees are exhibited in a Tokonoma with a scroll helping depict a season or moment in time. Or maybe a table top display with suitable accessories that help tell a story.

I think the two are totally removed from one another and story telling displays are what we should be talking about. Lone tree "exhibitions" really are not what we are talking about as needing a western point of view. Be it table top, plinth, museum piller or podium a tree by itself is always a tree by itself.

I don't have a problem with either one as I do both and love each for different reasons. The formal display with looking for the accessories to tell what you want as well as assembling those is what is really fun for me. I could care less if it's Japanese as I get the same feeling viewing it as I would if it had a more western feel. In fact if you look at a lot of really good keido Japanese displays there is really no contributing factors that make them look Japanese at all. Most of them could be a part of anywhere, Earth, Milkeyway.

Al

 

[garywood]

Subtleties and nuance down to its minimum elements demands great attention to detail. I haven’t seen this in ANY ”westernized” display. Could be that I don’t get out enough but that’s the way I grew up. One persons subtleties is another’s ostentation.
Wood

 

[Ross]

Topiary is almost always displayed in an outdoor garden, where they are grown.

I still like this idea. Most people think that bonsai are grown indoors next to the window, and getting them outside for display would maybe help dispel that myth. I dunno, it'd be fun to mix it up!

 

[Yamadori]

Al, I agree with your definition of display vs exhibition. Display having more elements and exhibition being the tree alone. I would like to speak to Cbobgo's #2. 3 point display with Western cultural elements

Gary, I agree when you say, "Subtleties and nuance down to its minimum elements demands great attention to detail". I think a study of Keido would be important for anyone wanting to gain this understanding, particularly if they wish to translate the 3 point tokonoma display into a westernized version. Translating the concepts such as harmony, relationship, balance, flow, unique but cohesive elements, symbolism, etc... is what makes Japanese display touch so many. But if we are to make 3 point display Western then those symbolic images need to speak to a Western audience.

Vic was right when she said one of the problems with Japanese display for a Western viewer is, "How to make a display that will speak to the viewer because it's conceptual foundations are not rooted in knowing that a leaping carp (to use the scroll image Al recently posted) means perseverence...but rather knowing that some other image - natural or domestic - holds that same meaning." Maybe a Western audience would get the message of perseverence from an image of a salmon heading up river to spawn(to stay with fish). Of course knowing that salmon runs begin in spring gives a season to the display BUT it is also the salmon's final journey to death so if the salmon in the scroll is more pinkish, that could be fall, the time of their spawn. There could be eggs in the water to clarify this detail too. The story would require the other elements to communicate more about the season. A tree common in the Cascade Range would imply the fall season of the salmon journey. An accent of a coastal sea grass would imply the spring beginning of the long journey ahead. As Gary said, "Subtleties and nuance down to its minimum elements."

I think Western scroll makers could start translating symbolic meanings to Western cultural images. This would help us to reach a Westen audience. As Vic said, "... what I am seeking is relevance."

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Barb...

Love the salmon display image.... that's exactly what I was reaching for. Silly me to have missed that connection...

I think non-bonsai folks are fascinated by the work we do... but I can only imagine what would happen if a public showing of western conceptualized displays was done. I think the reaction would be strong, because they would have a chance to put personal meaning into what is otherwise a very seemingly mysterious art.

Oh I but dare to dream....................... *smile*

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

PS. Oh... and if you want a western scroll maker who likes pushing the broundaries of traditional images into western relevance... Paul Goff in the UK is your man. Not cheap, but definitely wonderful.

 

[Ross]

A painting like this would work for me. There are not a ton of bears around here, but I've seen them, and for me it would be more relevant than a carp.

http://www.freespiritart.com/spirit-bear-by-bateman.php

 

[cbobgo]

Barb...

Oh I but dare to dream....................... *smile*

Well, why don't we start with a Western Elements Photo Contest? Anyone interested?

- bob

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

That's a beautiful concept. I think I would like it to look less like a polar bear though... because that's what I thought of when I saw the white bear. However... it's a beautiful image none the less... and I see perseverance all over it.

V

 

[ghues]

I like the way this discussion is evolving......and seeing as though I didn't get much response last time............I'll add again my theory or approach using Al's "display" logic and perhaps the traditional Japanese 3 piece setting but based on a story to evoke a feeling based on the story telling of First Nations (like but a little different than Ms. Vic's snow angel story - I could really understand and relate to that Ms. Vic.). However I also understand that this might be lost to the general audience (not you bonsainuts- general public per se).....if they don't have an appreciation for such art.
Here are a couple of ideas for inspiration that I'll like to try and use someday. I aslo appreciate that one would have to careful with the other elements and that they weren't too strong to overpower the tree but would compliment the story.
Cheers
G.

 

[Yamadori]

ghues, How about a juniper or pinyon pine with a shelter stone or plateau stone and a print of a hawk in flight? That would encompass some of the Southwestern Native elements. It would be totally different for a different regional representation.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

It would be interesting to know Native American views (especially up here in the NW) on bonsai as a practice before incorporating their art into the process... ie... if they object to ancient trees being collected and displayed as bonsai... it would be out of context to pair it with their art. The respect would have to be mutual both ways. Do you have any sense of that?

I love the art in the collage. NW native arts are so refined that I could see it being used very easily. Especially given the powerful symbolisms hidden within each work.

I think rustic pots and slabs would be more the order for trees paired with these art pieces.

Thanks for sharing G!

V

 

[Yamadori]

It would be interesting to know Native American views (especially up here in the NW) on bonsai as a practice before incorporating their art into the process... ie... if they object to ancient trees being collected and displayed as bonsai... it would be out of context to pair it with their art. The respect would have to be mutual both ways. Do you have any sense of that?

V

This is an important question. I would be very cautious interpreting Native culture in an applied context. I think the views about bonsai would be as varied as the tribes and individuals. Elders may see it completly different from the younger tribal members.

Collected trees might be more off putting than nursery trees just for the fact that the collected trees were taken from Mother Earth. Ripping a tree out of the earth is not reverent.

I think working with a tribal artist(s) to create a display would be a great experience. Their ancient ancestors came from Asia. Connecting the art and expression of reverence for nature of the East and NW might produce a fantastic display. It is very possible that Keido concepts would be intuitive to a Native Artist who is very culturally connected.

 

[Attila Soos]

It would be interesting to know Native American views (especially up here in the NW) on bonsai as a practice before incorporating their art into the process... ie... if they object to ancient trees being collected and displayed as bonsai...

I can't imagine that this would be a problem. If anything, they would be proud to see their art displayed.
Practicing bonsai is connecting with nature. If they woudn't understand nature reverence, I don't know who would.
In the old days, native indians were fascinated and amazed by small statuettes from the west, representing animals and plants. They placed great value on them.

In order to create a totem pole, or a canoe, you have to cut down (kill) a large and old tree. That is no different from collecting a small tree(bonsai). To eat the salmon, you have to catch and kill it. That's no better than capturing it and keeping it as a pet.
Responsible use of natural resources is the cornerstone of native indian cultures. I can't possibly imagine that doing bonsai is an irresponsible use, considering the indurstrial consumption of the modern cultures, the clear-cutting of thousands of acres, etc. The thought of comparing bonsai with that is ridiculous.

BTW, I love the idea to display abstract native art with bonsai. That is totally awsome, since the abstract nature of these works do not overlap the image created by the tree (no redundancy), since it operates on a totally different level. To me, the worst crime in a bonsai display is redundancy.

 

[Attila Soos]

If that's so, then how can ANY critique of it be invalid? Are the only invalid perspectives those that don't jibe with the modern artist?

On surface, any critique should be valid. But I happen to know that your critique came from comparing the display with traditional display, and I think that it would be too easy to just list the things a modern display lacks in comparison, and present them as shortcomings. If a modern display does not try to be what a traditional display is, what's the point to compare one to the other?

THe issue for me is that most of the "western" attempts at bonsai display come off as desperate at best and at worst precious or self-important. The drive to BE WESTERN screams from many of the big time displays.

Yeah, I would avoid trying to be reactive to anything. Instead, I would do what comes from the heart.

Here is a thought: have you ever seen two works of art that look almost identical? What if every bonsai display woud look totally different? If that was the case, the concept of "proper" display would have no meaning anymore, since there would be no blueprint to follow.
It is blasphemy to even think about that (no blueprint), but wouldn't that be an amazingly wicked concept? The bonsai censorship would lose all the power they had for centuries. Auch! All of a sudden, (real)artists with no formal bonsai training could borrow our trees and use them for their creations. It hurts to even think about that.

 

[Mike Page]

All American display

OK folks, here we go. The tree is a stunted California coast redwood. The rock is from the Southwest USA. The shotgun is an antique.

 

[ghues]

Yamadori, Ms Vic., Attila thanks for your interest in this theme…(Yamadori “east meets the PNW” at least for me up here….lol) ….but I think this idea would work really well as the regional cultural differences could be incorporated into the general theme, story or vision.

It’s true that some elders may see it differently but isn’t that the same in any culture? Some may see it as preserving these ancient trees, or an interpretation of their folklore in a different format…. however others may see it otherwise.
Just as a matter of respect I would try and talk/discus the concept with the artist first….. for as I stated earlier we have some great local First Nations artists and I if I can get an audience with them to determine their thoughts I would, even if I had purchased the item to be used? They might be able to provide some real inspiration about a story or their folklore about a certain piece and the Bonsai would just be part of the image rather than the center piece.
This concept isn’t just topical for me today as I work daily with a local First Nation that provide us with a Silvicultural services crew and who just today presented, to a fellow worker that retired (who had previously worked with them for over decade), a beautiful ceramic dish with a Coast Salish Sun interpretation which was just stunning and the artist’s husband is the crews foreman so I think I have a lead?

If I get anywhere with this idea I’ll be sure to post something…..now all I need is to learn how to take really good photos, find a great tree, ….

Cheers G.

 

[Walter Pall]

How about these?