well I got another one for ya vance! mugo pine

[benw3790]

I know something can EVENTUALLY be made of this mugo pine. I should probably stop buying material like this but its so hard to resist when the trunks are so fat and the price is so cheap! Anyway, it has three main trunks. I cut out all the dead stuff, unwanted, small under growth and left just the three trunks. Going to fertilize well this year and repot it next year. It has excellent drainage even tho its in nursery potting soil. Ihave a couple sketches of what it maybe COULD look like one day. The future design would require me to eliminate one of the trunks. Maybe jin it. Any suggestions, input, questions or crcritiques are welcome. Lets talk about it!

 

[benw3790]

Here is what I have come up with so far! In the first picture up top, the back trunk is kind of blending in with the apex/trunk on the right making it appear thicker than it actually is.

 

[Vance Wood]

Very nice find. Sorry I did not find the thread sooner. I am beginning to feel like a pig searching for truffles. I have to go looking through all the posts inorder to find the stuff like you just posted. Really sorry. Let the tree rest till you start getting some development in it. See what it looks like in Early July and then we can discuss repotting.

 

[Giga]

just a question vance-with mugo do you prune in july as well or prune in spring?

 

[Vance Wood]

I was asked about that this morning at our club meeting. I told them that working with Mugos is like fishing; the best time to do it is when you can. However; to be more specific I prune the major projects in the summer usually in July through September. I will prune in spring but sometimes that time is particularly messy with a lot of sap leakage.

 

[benw3790]

Very nice find Sorry I did not find the thread sooner. I am beginning to feel like a pig searching for truffles. I have to go looking through all the posts inorder to find the stuff like you just posted. Really sorry. Let the tree rest till you start getting some development in it. See what it looks like in Early July and then we can discuss repotting.

Its totally fine man, no rush, no worries. I was wondering If you saw any potential for this material?? And after reducing the foliage that much, I could still repot it I the hottest part of summer? Lol I would say I took off about 35 maybe 40% foliage. May not be that much actually but close. I only left two branches on thw third trunk that I plan to eliminate or jin just for health of the tree. I will leave it alone for now and we can discuss it again in July. Thank you, vance!

 

[Vance Wood]

From the look of the needles at least the length and nature of them seems to indicate that the tree has been grown in a lot of shade. Remember as we approach summer Mugos are not JBP's which do will with a minimum of water Mugos are pecular about water. They do not like to sit in water or be wet all of the time but they like a constant exchange of water and air meaning a well draining soil and a lot of water. The soil on a Mugo must breath. Water in = pushes the air out----Water drains out = draws the air in. This keeps the soil from becoming sour stagnant causing the roots to rot.

 

[Adair M]

Vance is the Muho expert, but here's something to think about:

You pruned off the small branches on the big whorl, and kept the three big ones. Now, when you look at what you have left, the primary branch is as big as the trunk. It appears to be out of scale.

Next time, see if you can't keep the smaller branches, removing more of the big ones. Leave one big one to be the next section of trunk, but try to keep the thinner branches.

The thin branches make the trunk look fatter.

 

[Vance Wood]

I see your point but there are a couple of things to consider. Mugos do not take kindly to having all, or most of the major growth as in the way of trunks and or branches removed at once in deference to smaller growth. Doing this, even if you think you have enough small branches and needles etc. can kill the tree------been there done that. Another point is in trying to establish some sort of trunk line. If there is any one subject that anyone interested in Mugos should study, or at least understand, are the techniques and sensibilities of clip and grow. Most Mugo Pine bonsai don't come served up on the platter of professionally prepped pre-bonsai, they should because if you have an idea of what you are doing you could make some decent money. But I departed from my original point. Most Mugo Pine bonsai must be built over time from material that calls for more imagination than tools and techniques.

 

[Adair M]

Vance, I agree with you on the slow removal of only a few branches at a time.

If it were more mine, I would have tried to identify my future trunk line using the heavier branches, then plan my branch structure using the smaller ones. Then, identify which of the larger branches need to be removed. Eventually. Maybe take one today, identify another to take in 6 months or so. Repeat until they're gone.

Meanwhile, wire the smaller ones into position.

 

[Vance Wood]

Probably a great approach but you have been doing bonsai for how long------? (answer not necessary) The longer you do bonsai the more likely it is that instinct will aid you in what to do. I have found myself doing things I would not normally do and refraining from doing things I would normally do without hesitation. I am finding with this project having to talk people through the process step by step. I don't mind as long as they don't feel humiliated. Sometime we have to deal with errors and mistakes. That's life.

 

[benw3790]

Vance is the Muho expert, but here's something to think about:

You pruned off the small branches on the big whorl, and kept the three big ones. Now, when you look at what you have left, the primary branch is as big as the trunk. It appears to be out of scale.

Next time, see if you can't keep the smaller branches, removing more of the big ones. Leave one big one to be the next section of trunk, but try to keep the thinner branches.

The thin branches make the trunk look fatter.

Well they were two branches, about pencil thick going straight up just like the bigger ones with foliage on the tips. I dont think they ever wouldve fattened up enough for that base lol. It would have looked like an apple with a pencil sticking out the top of it, if you get what im saying? But I dont have much experience with pines and I was kinda worried about how all the trunks/main branch were about the same thickness. With the sketches I made, the thickest branch will go out almost horizontally, kinda making it a semi cascade like style and then have another trunk going straight up (with subtle movement as it already has) as the apex. Its actually not as thick as the main branch just looks that way in this 2D picture. there were really no smaller branches or buds in the under growth worth keeping or I would have kept them as you suggested! I mightve been able to grow one out for 20 years and have something but who wants to wait that long? I basically just established myself with somewhat of a trunk line with plenty of branches to work with. Its definitely some interesting/harder material to work with for sure! Thanks for your input and opinions I really appreciate them!

 

[benw3790]

From the look of the needles at least the length and nature of them seems to indicate that the tree has been grown in a lot of shade. Remember as we approach summer Mugos are not JBP's which do will with a minimum of water Mugos are pecular about water. They do not like to sit in water or be wet all of the time but they like a constant exchange of water and air meaning a well draining soil and a lot of water. The soil on a Mugo must breath. Water in = pushes the air out----Water drains out = draws the air in. This keeps the soil from becoming sour stagnant causing the roots to rot.

The drainage, right now, even with the nursery can/soil has perfect drainage. It Is definitely probably root bound though. Definitely needs a repot. Not sure if the very middle of the root ball is getting air and moisture though. Might need to stick a chop stick in it. I have no idea if it was grown in mostly shade or not but it was in full sun when I.bought it and looks really healthy! This one will be a fun one, for sure! You can try and humiliate me all you want haha I just wanna learn! And the sharing of your knowledge, input and suggestions/help are very appreciated, vance!

 

[Vance Wood]

The drainage, right now, even with the nursery can/soil has perfect drainage. It Is definitely probably root bound though. Definitely needs a repot. Not sure if the very middle of the root ball is getting air and moisture though. Might need to stick a chop stick in it. I have no idea if it was grown in mostly shade or not but it was in full sun when I.bought it and looks really healthy! This one will be a fun one, for sure! You can try and humiliate me all you want haha I just wanna learn! And the sharing of your knowledge, input and suggestions/help are very appreciated, vance!

If you are in doubt get a 1/4 or 1/8 drill bit one of the 6 inch jobs and drill some holes through the soil mass top to bottom close to the trunk. Even if you go through some wood you are not likely to hurt the tree.

 

[Adair M]

Uh, no one here is trying to humiliate anyone.

Between Vance and I, we have a collective 80 plus years of bonsai experience. That we are willing to share with anyone, for free.

I didn't say remove ALL the large branches, I said to choose one of the larger ones to continue the trunk line. Use the smaller sized branches to be your side branches, and remove unwanted large branches.

Also, smaller branches are more likely to backbud than heavy branches as their skin is thinner.

One of the problems with these trees is they are sheared into a shrub. Thus creates a ball with foliage on the outside, and no foliage on the inside. It's not the species, it's how they're grown to be landscape plants. We want foliage close to the trunk with bonsai. These nursery plants don't have any. So, the first thing we have to do is open up the canopy, exposing the interior to the sun. Sunlight is required for backbudding.

The trick is how to do it without killing the tree, and getting it started on the pathway to becoming a bonsai instead of a shrub.

 

[M. Frary]

Between Vance and I, we have a collective 80 plus years of bonsai experience.

And when they agree on something you do well to listen. I do.