Wedge cut and bend on Ume?

[SeanS]

Anyone have any experience with wedge cutting and bending an Ume? With deadwood being a part of Ume design, could one remove a chunk of a branch or trunk of an Ume in order to perform a bend in that area?

 

[bwaynef]

I don't have any experience w/ wedge cutting an ume, but I suspect it wouldn't work out well. They're incredibly snappy on 1st year wood. I'd think that rigidity would carry through to the lignified and thickened wood. If you do it, take lots of pictures.

 

[River's Edge]

Anyone have any experience with wedge cutting and bending an Ume? With deadwood being a part of Ume design, could one remove a chunk of a branch or trunk of an Ume in order to perform a bend in that area?

Based on the tendency to die back when wounded I would not recommend this approach. All my experience suggests wiring or bending on very new growth for best results.

 

[KikurageOtomo]

I don't have any experience w/ wedge cutting an ume, but I suspect it wouldn't work out well. They're incredibly snappy on 1st year wood. I'd think that rigidity would carry through to the lignified and thickened wood. If you do it, take lots of pictures.

I'd have to echo this post, even with good technique its very common to get snapping in Ume branches. It might be helpful to see a photo of the material and a rough depiction of what you're planning to do.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

How about wedging on the opposite side?
In pines we wedge on the side we want to bend towards.. But would a branch snap on a cherry/plum if it's cut on the opposite side? I mean, one side is just being compacted and the other side that would snap just isn't there.
Would be an interesting case study.

 

[SeanS]

How about wedging on the opposite side?
In pines we wedge on the side we want to bend towards.. But would a branch snap on a cherry/plum if it's cut on the opposite side? I mean, one side is just being compacted and the other side that would snap just isn't there.
Would be an interesting case study.

That was my thought too, carving out the opposite/outside of the possible bend.

I’ll post a photo of what I’m thinking of doing tomorrow when the sun’s out

 

[bwaynef]

I've seen a video where bends are formed by snapping greenwood and the break heals and the branch takes on a new shape because of the break. That illustrates how "snappy" this tree is.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I've seen a video where bends are formed by snapping greenwood and the break heals and the branch takes on a new shape because of the break. That illustrates how "snappy" this tree is.

Agreed…and in my experience those branches do live…for a few years.
Withiut seeing the tree itself, it’s hard to say, but it seems there should be a safer styling option to the wedge cut.

 

[Dav4]

I was able to successfully bend a thick older branch by hollowing out one side then placing a large gauge wire in the hollow then wrapping with more wire. It's the main left branch that cascades down. I did have another smaller branch that could replace the carved one if it died... it didn't.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

I've seen a video where bends are formed by snapping greenwood and the break heals and the branch takes on a new shape because of the break. That illustrates how "snappy" this tree is.

This works very reliably. I have many larger Ume that I use as parent plants for cuttings. I am constantly snagging and bumping into them, and breaking branches. Branches that are hanging by a a thread--literally suspended and rotating like a bungee jumper--have healed if stabilized with tissue being moderately aligned. Those that I have allowed to thicken have done well; I have some going back to 2018, they are perfectly-healed right-angle branches now.

Back to the main question: Without having seen the branch in question I think that, in general, a wedge cut in an Ume is likely to snap completely say, for example, if you're removing 30-50% of the wood and trying to bend the remaining tissue 30 to 45 degrees.

Withiut seeing the tree itself, it’s hard to say, but it seems there should be a safer styling option to the wedge cut.

I agree with Brian. Aesthetic options are nearly unlimited with Ume. Post a picture and I'm sure we'll find better, safer options.

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[SeanS]

Here’s the tree, picked up 5 of them over the weekend for the equivalent of $7 each.
The more I’ve thought about it I don’t see the extra bending necessary, but my question was about putting a sharper bend in the initial bend in the trunk.





I’m thinking of turning it on its side and creating a semi-cascade, using the thick left branch with the small green shoot as the main branch and the remaining 2 smaller branches on the back of the trunk in the rear. The semi-green shoot coming off of the base of the thick cascade branch could be bend up to form an apex of sorts.
The rest of the thick woody branches will be removed.

The question of bending the first bend more was too try to crest a more dramatic drop into the semi-cascade

 

[SeanS]

This works very reliably. I have many larger Ume that I use as parent plants for cuttings. I am constantly snagging and bumping into them, and breaking branches. Branches that are hanging by a a thread--literally suspended and rotating like a bungee jumper--have healed if stabilized with tissue being moderately aligned. Those that I have allowed to thicken have done well; I have some going back to 2018, they are perfectly-healed right-angle branches now.

Back to the main question: Without having seen the branch in question I think that, in general, a wedge cut in an Ume is likely to snap completely say, for example, if you're removing 30-50% of the wood and trying to bend the remaining tissue 30 to 45 degrees.



I agree with Brian. Aesthetic options are nearly unlimited with Ume. Post a picture and I'm sure we'll find better, safer options.

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@Canada Bonsai I literally read kokufu_ume and kokufe_maples before bed every night

 

[SeanS]

I was able to successfully bend a thick older branch by hollowing out one side then placing a large gauge wire in the hollow then wrapping with more wire. It's the main left branch that cascades down. I did have another smaller branch that could replace the carved one if it died... it didn't.
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This is exactly what I wanted to see! Thank you! My idea was something along these lines, more of hollowing the trunk out at that section than just cutting a wedge. This makes me think it would be possible on the trunk I posted above

 

[SeanS]

Something along these lines

 

[River's Edge]

I was able to successfully bend a thick older branch by hollowing out one side then placing a large gauge wire in the hollow then wrapping with more wire. It's the main left branch that cascades down. I did have another smaller branch that could replace the carved one if it died... it didn't.
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I have had success with this alternate approach on thicker more brittle branches as well. I believe it to be a safer option with better long term results. The trick is to time the wire removal before it heals in place. Also helpful if the slot can be cut in a design location less visible when healed.
Nice job on this one. Suits the overall craggy look perfectly.

 

[SeanS]

@Dav4 @River's Edge when would you say is the best time to perform something like you've described/documented above? I'm guessing during the growing season so the plant can heal the dame caused by the hollowing out and bending?

 

[Dav4]

I performed the carving and bending in early spring as the tree was beginning to grow.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Maybe just change the planting angle.

 

[River's Edge]

@Dav4 @River's Edge when would you say is the best time to perform something like you've described/documented above? I'm guessing during the growing season so the plant can heal the dame caused by the hollowing out and bending?

I have used this approach three times and each time was early spring at the beginning of the growing season.

When I look closely at the section you are posting I am more inclined to work with changing the planting angle and working on the root formation to accomplish that. Not sure the effort and scar is worth the minor change.

 

[SeanS]

I have used this approach three times and each time was early spring at the beginning of the growing season.

When I look closely at the section you are posting I am more inclined to work with changing the planting angle and working on the root formation to accomplish that. Not sure the effort and scar is worth the minor change.

Thanks Frank, I have since been playing around with angles and won’t be bending this one, but am still curious about the hollowing/bending for the future should the need arise.

The one in this post I’ll probably just angle like you’ve mentioned with the initial part of the trunk closer to the horizontal and the roots on the upper side worked in a way to accomplish the move
I’ll create a progress thread for my Umes in spring, I’ve got another big one in a grow bed that’s also progressing nicely. The base below the soil is about as wide as the length of your hand