M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
That's how I apply it.
Water butt system
- Thread starter ConorDash
- Start date
I think I said to you before that I felt the amount of fert I use seems too little.. I think it was you.
Do you agree with his idea on that he reckons he fertilises 40-60times more than a normal average person in total?
Do you actually see a difference to if you fert normally one year then the next year you do normally + that extra chemical one twice a year?
I've seen the strategy, talking about fertilising regularly then another unique one very infrequently. Just find it hard to see how this would make much of a difference. I'm sure it does of course, just trying to see it.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
It's very difficult to argue with that article.. It's written by.. The man. Of course it is still victim to his location and other variables, as you are saying Rockm, but the advice I take from it is mainly about the water used. The frequency is something else, which yeh I'm sure you are right about Rockm.
I'm in the UK so his advice from Germany isn't too different to our climate, but that's besides the point.
All this talk about water being clean enough I think I'll just hang that hat up and use tap water or the occasion rainwater collected. Doesn't mean to make a difference. For the effort it takes to go through it all, there's just no point.
It's very true, our hot or even europes hot is a mild day for the US.
Thank you for the link Pete, it's very good. I've actually not read or watched much of Walter Pall, but from what I can tell, and others opinions, he seems to be the Godfather of it all. Highly respected and knowledgable.
It is true though what he says, even if watered a lot or overwatered, with the right soil, it can't hurt because all extra would just drain away.. So I guess I can't argue with that. Although both my trees aren't in that kind of position yet.
They are in good mixes but not completely inorganic and I'm not 100% comfortable with their mix yet. I'll report both in spring then I will be.
It is not all that hard to argue with the article, especially if don't live where he lives. The Man knows what he's doing WITH WHAT HE'S DOING IT WITH. He is using basically gravel for soil, no organics. That kind of soil requires specific care, a lot of water and fertilizer. If you're not using that kind of soil, and taking his advice as a given, you're setting yourself up for trouble. He'll say that himself.
Also, climate can make a huge difference. It is a given here in the middle Atlantic states and into the Southern U.S. that watering the tops of trees in the evening will cause significant fungal issues and mold. Also, there has also been some concern, mainly from Western U.S. ponderosa collecting types that watering such a loose soil mix during the hottest time of the day in hotter climates can basically cook roots by basically steaming them, since there is so much air space between soil particles.
He is hardly the 'Godfather" of it all. He stands on the shoulders of many others who were pursuing the type of inorganic soils and practices 25 years ago. To give him credit he hyped it and made it popular among people who are unfamiliar with the history. I'll probably hear from the throngs who do worship the man now...
...1-2 x a month. Hard to say, I've been using inorganic soils only for two seasons. Too soon to have it figured out, but my trees look happy. Doing repotting of some of them in the spring, I had never seen such a healthy and strong root systems before I started going inorganic...
I use the chemical fert just to make sure the plants receive everything they need (nutrients and elements) and when the dose is empty I buy a different product. Just for a change.
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You are a very disagreeable person lol. I await the day you agree with something, I've not seen it yet
. I understand what you are saying, I've said before that there are too many variables for one persons advice to be 100% accurate, but at least he comes close to making that impossible, possible.Either way, it's solved what I wanted to know. I'm not going to worry so much about using tap water if needed, and I'll still clean that water butt out before I use it in my bonsai but I use it on my other plants, vegetables and fruit growers so I'm sure it's fine. More of a piece of mind thing.
Going off what I have learnt so far, I think I'll always go inorganic mix. I've yet to work out the fert situation but I'll get comfortable with the basics of watering first. Seems like an easy thing but turns out its really not. Thanks.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I'll estimate he doesn't fertilize more than me. I use totally inorganic substrate. No akadama to break down clogging the works either. I've added lava to the D.E. Plus the turkey grit and that's it.
I mix the ferts thick. 5 heaping scoops to 2 gallons of water. I let the plants dry a little before applying. I also let the plants get a little on the dry side before I water again to make sure they take in as much as possible before it gets washed out at watering time. I do this 2 times a week sometimes if I'm home in the middle of the week. I've yet to see any adverse effects. And by keeping the trees in full sun from dawn until dusk I don't get long internodes.
BrianBay9
Masterpiece
I've found rain barrels useful in two situations - where water is scarce and therefore expensive, and as a heat sink in a greenhouse. The first case probably doesn't apply in the UK. In the latter case they can reduce you're overall energy use significantly.
Oh Conor, we're having a language issue I guess.
I have been growing in inorganic mixes for two years and I and my plants are very happy. And so I will continue inorganic. We have temperate continental climate here, all4 seasons, the summer temps can rise up to 40℃ for some shorter periods, with drying hot winds...so in your (humid, rainy, foggy) climate inorganic soil should work better.
Concerning WP article I would like to emphasize - take it all (watering, fertilizing and substrates) or nothing.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
FWIW, you HAVE to fertilize inorganic soils more and constantly because the constant watering washes 99 percent of those fertilizers out extremely quickly. Such soils can't "hold onto" fertilizers effective like soils with some organic components.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Conor, I don't have time to read through the entire thread so don't know if this has been mentioned. If you have concerns about your tap water, why don't you just send a sample off to be tested? It's not that expensive (at least here). Municipal water here is treated with chemicals that adjust the pH (usually to 7-8 range) but most people use it without any problems for most species. If you have a well, then it is really worth testing as ground water can vary widely in quality.
BTW, regarding Walter Pall...I'm pretty sure he stated that he adds coarse peat to his soil, so it's not 100% inorganic. Can't remember what percentage he uses, though.
BTW, regarding Walter Pall...I'm pretty sure he stated that he adds coarse peat to his soil, so it's not 100% inorganic. Can't remember what percentage he uses, though.
I don't think we do? Lol at least not my side personally. I didn't misunderstand anything you said, I agree and accept it completely. I've no issue with anything you said, I simply agreed. I don't know where the misunderstanding is. I will go inorganic too, as I have been a bit so far but not 100% yet. I plan to go 100% next spring, I think.
I understand.
Do you think that would apply to physical ferts aswell, such as pellets or cakes or a top layer mix that gets out on to the bonsai soil and slow releases it for months?
Salcomine
Yamadori
Before you go as far as sending off a tap water sample, you should be able to find the information online. If England is anything like Canada then if you are provided water by a municipal source then the supplier must disclose water quality reports to the government and public on some regular basis. If you look around you should find the information your looking for.(I did some digging already but I dunno the exact city you live in.) here's a link to the 2014 water quality reports: http://dwi.defra.gov.uk/about/annual-report/2014/index.html
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
That's a reasonable starting point, but I know the water quality reports available for our local system don't have all the parameters you might be concerned with for growing plants. Maybe that is not the case elsewhere.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Pellets and cakes are woefully in adequate for inorganic soil mixes. They aren't taken up as quickly as "chemical" fertilizers by plant roots. They also require microbes to break them down into useable components to some extent. Superfast draining inorganic soils will neither allow the fertilizer to persist in the soil, nor are they the most hospitable to microbe colonies. Not to mention that the waste left behind by the pellets can clog the soil's drainage and not in a good way.
I should add, however...this can depend on WHAT KIND of inorganics you're using, Stuff like akadama and pumice can hold onto nutrients better than crushed rock like granite.
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Eric Group
Masterpiece
Hold up.... I am lost!! I thought "water butt" is what you get from eating at Taco Bell!
@ConorDash , sorry, I misunderstood the meaning of "Going off what I have learnt so far...". Oh well, phrasal verbs.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Mmmm, Taco Bell. Run for the bathroom!
