Vine Maple (A.Circinatum) in Central Texas

[Maiden69]

Do anyone have experience with vine maples in an hot 8b zone? I was web surfing and watching bonsai-haruyoshi YouTube channel and decided to search for some bare root JBP and the first place that had them at a semi-decent price also had them. I ordered 3 bareroot small trees to try them out and would like to know how they fare in my area. I have 2 Japanese maples, a Kotohime from Matt O. and 'Hubble's Super Cork' "Pinebark" from Mr. Maple. They get some burn leaves but otherwise grow decently. This year I plan on placing them under a 50% shade as soon as it starts getting warmer, right now they are both under my cherry tree that just leafed out.

I found quite a few posts here, but mostly from member in the PNW, on an 8b zone but completely different climate. Any pointers would be great, I plan on ground growing them for a few years and debating if I need to do so with a 30% shade and use the 50% once they go into bonsai pots during the summer?

 

[jradics]

vine maple is common in pacific northwest. With proper shade and watering, will survive in TX but not ideally suited for those climes

 

[Apex37]

No experience growing them yet, but I’ve considered it. Interested how they do for you this year!
I’m hoping for a more mild summer, but probably wishful thinking, as it is every year. Been getting a good amount of rain lately, which has been encouraging.

 

[rockm]

Do anyone have experience with vine maples in an hot 8b zone? I was web surfing and watching bonsai-haruyoshi YouTube channel and decided to search for some bare root JBP and the first place that had them at a semi-decent price also had them. I ordered 3 bareroot small trees to try them out and would like to know how they fare in my area. I have 2 Japanese maples, a Kotohime from Matt O. and 'Hubble's Super Cork' "Pinebark" from Mr. Maple. They get some burn leaves but otherwise grow decently. This year I plan on placing them under a 50% shade as soon as it starts getting warmer, right now they are both under my cherry tree that just leafed out.

I found quite a few posts here, but mostly from member in the PNW, on an 8b zone but completely different climate. Any pointers would be great, I plan on ground growing them for a few years and debating if I need to do so with a 30% shade and use the 50% once they go into bonsai pots during the summer?

I'd think they'd burn to a crisp rather quickly in central Texas. Vine maple is a Pacific Northwest understory tree native to coastal (within 300 miles of the ocean), in the coastal forests and Columbia River gorge...

 

[Maiden69]

I'd think they'd burn to a crisp rather quickly in central Texas. Vine maple is a Pacific Northwest understory tree native to coastal (within 300 miles of the ocean), in the coastal forests and Columbia River gorge...

I was reading that on the USDA data base after ordering them... welp, I guess they will go with the Japanese maples under the 50% for a while.

 

[August44]

They need about no direct sun and watch for fungus. Shade is big and keep the pot cool in the heat too.

 

[LeatherTree23]

Do anyone have experience with vine maples in an hot 8b zone? I was web surfing and watching bonsai-haruyoshi YouTube channel and decided to search for some bare root JBP and the first place that had them at a semi-decent price also had them. I ordered 3 bareroot small trees to try them out and would like to know how they fare in my area. I have 2 Japanese maples, a Kotohime from Matt O. and 'Hubble's Super Cork' "Pinebark" from Mr. Maple. They get some burn leaves but otherwise grow decently. This year I plan on placing them under a 50% shade as soon as it starts getting warmer, right now they are both under my cherry tree that just leafed out.

I found quite a few posts here, but mostly from member in the PNW, on an 8b zone but completely different climate. Any pointers would be great, I plan on ground growing them for a few years and debating if I need to do so with a 30% shade and use the 50% once they go into bonsai pots during the summer?

Hi there Texan! Former Texan, current PNWer. Not super experienced bonsai person but a seasoned gardener. It sounds like you already bought the trees. But I spent 8 years battling TX heat in Waco and am now baffled by cool temps in WA. The only problem I can see is the heat/ ground temps in your area. I watched a few plants literally just….melt away in the ground over summer in TX. Even in the shade. It was a lot like failure to thrive.
Hope you’ll keep the thread updated. I am “rooting” for ya!
Also, I miss crepe myrtles. And the sun. I miss the sun.

 

[rodeolthr]

You will find them growing in some of the most extreme locations in Seattle.....namely along streets and in parking lot planters where they absolutely cook. However, cooking in Seattle and cooking in Texas are different things. I would think that one of the biggest obstacles for you might be water ph, since they won't take alkaline water, just like most of the Asian maples. Since you already have them ordered, seems like you only option is to give them a go. Good luck

 

[August44]

You will find them growing in some of the most extreme locations in Seattle.....namely along streets and in parking lot planters where they absolutely cook. However, cooking in Seattle and cooking in Texas are different things. I would think that one of the biggest obstacles for you might be water ph, since they won't take alkaline water, just like most of the Asian maples. Since you already have them ordered, seems like you only option is to give them a go. Good luck

So what should the ph be to satisfy them?

 

[rodeolthr]

I imagine no higher than 7.5-8. But I'm uncertain what the actual ph values are throughout the PNW. I think that the soil and water in my garden are around 6

 

[Maiden69]

I got an email from the USPS that they were delivered today... crazy because I placed the order Friday at 10am. Chuck one to good service from Scenic Hill Farm Nursery. I will update on the condition of the trees when I get home. I order 3 vine maple bareroots and 5 JBP bareroots just to try them out.

 

[Doogliebop]

I got an email from the USPS that they were delivered today... crazy because I placed the order Friday at 10am. Chuck one to good service from Scenic Hill Farm Nursery. I will update on the condition of the trees when I get home. I order 3 vine maple bareroots and 5 JBP bareroots just to try them out.

I buy my pumice from them as well as a some mugo and JBP. Always fast shipping from them.

 

[Maiden69]

Here are the pics of the bare roots received from Scenic Hill Farm. The maples were planted in 4" Root maker pots with the "tap" root escaping into bonsai soil. Plan is to get them started and hopefully strong, then remove from the tray once I have enough roots on the pot and cut off the tap root.



I wasn't ready for the amount of roots on this pines, so they went into root pouches. Had I know there were going to me that many roots I would had acquired some rocks and do some root over rock pines. Definitely going to order more if I can get some decent rocks over the weekend, or will keep in mind for next year. I'm almost out of space on the bench as it is right now.

 

[Maiden69]

I think I received two duds on that order... the tip on one is still slightly green and both are still malleable. I still hope they will be a late starter but not holding my breath.

The roots on this were very long, so I placed them on Root Maker pots with the extra length of roots going into the media in the pond basket. The plan is to sever the "tap root" once the they establish enough roots in the pots.

 

[MaciekA]

I'm late to the thread but it's not always the case that these are purely understory trees and only ever understory trees. Throughout the PNW they do indeed show up all over the place in the understory, including the woods behind my house, up in the Cascades, and in the coastals as well.

However! I've seen quite a few compelling counter examples to the understory distribution.

There are areas at a couple thousand feet elevation in the Cascades where numerous (hundreds) vine maples exist in relatively open full sun, notably at the big lava bed in southern WA where they grow side by side with lodgepole pines and some other stuff. At higher elevation the sun intensity is that much stronger too which backs up the idea that vine maples can handle it. Not sure if there's a genetic component to it, and there definitely might be when it comes to marketed cultivars.

Additionally, in Oregon suburbs, you do see the odd vine maple in full sun conditions next to roasting hot pavement or next to a bright wall. This includes a large vine maple right next to my home office window which is adjacent to a bright south facing wall (which gets very hot in the summer) and is about 15 feet tall and healthy. As @rockm stated, there is quite a bit of crisping, but that is limited to the outer shell of the canopy at the very top of the tree. The vine maples I have seen in open sun in the cascades (as well as some in the coastals at about 2000 - 3500ft that like to colonize wide open sunny post-clearcutting areas) develop much deeper colors in the leaf than the ones that stay strictly in the understory, so I think it's important to have these out in full sun at least in the spring if you want to tilt the odds in favor of sun durability.

Michael Hagedorn keeps his vine maples in full sun until weather begins to get properly hot, and then it goes under shade cloth when the shade cloth gets put up. All of the trees I have in mind (here, at Hagedorn's, coastals, cascades, suburbs, etc) survived the 2021 PNW heat dome event (days of record temps with peaks at 116F / 47C), so the species can definitely handle very strong heat, but you can help things along with shade cloth once summer sets in.

I can dig up some pictures of vine maple growing in straight lava in the cascades if anyone is interested.

 

[rockm]

I'm late to the thread but it's not always the case that these are purely understory trees and only ever understory trees. Throughout the PNW they do indeed show up all over the place in the understory, including the woods behind my house, up in the Cascades, and in the coastals as well.

However! I've seen quite a few compelling counter examples to the understory distribution.

There are areas at a couple thousand feet elevation in the Cascades where numerous (hundreds) vine maples exist in relatively open full sun, notably at the big lava bed in southern WA where they grow side by side with lodgepole pines and some other stuff. At higher elevation the sun intensity is that much stronger too which backs up the idea that vine maples can handle it. Not sure if there's a genetic component to it, and there definitely might be when it comes to marketed cultivars.

Additionally, in Oregon suburbs, you do see the odd vine maple in full sun conditions next to roasting hot pavement or next to a bright wall. This includes a large vine maple right next to my home office window which is adjacent to a bright south facing wall (which gets very hot in the summer) and is about 15 feet tall and healthy. As @rockm stated, there is quite a bit of crisping, but that is limited to the outer shell of the canopy at the very top of the tree. The vine maples I have seen in open sun in the cascades (as well as some in the coastals at about 2000 - 3500ft that like to colonize wide open sunny post-clearcutting areas) develop much deeper colors in the leaf than the ones that stay strictly in the understory, so I think it's important to have these out in full sun at least in the spring if you want to tilt the odds in favor of sun durability.

Michael Hagedorn keeps his vine maples in full sun until weather begins to get properly hot, and then it goes under shade cloth when the shade cloth gets put up. All of the trees I have in mind (here, at Hagedorn's, coastals, cascades, suburbs, etc) survived the 2021 PNW heat dome event (days of record temps with peaks at 116F / 47C), so the species can definitely handle very strong heat, but you can help things along with shade cloth once summer sets in.

I can dig up some pictures of vine maple growing in straight lava in the cascades if anyone is interested.

Ever spent a July or August in Houston?

 

[Maiden69]

All is good now, I guess they were just late.

 

[Maiden69]

Doing good so far, started with the 100+ degrees heat index. The next two weeks will be between 90-103 with 100+ heat index daily. They will stay under the bench where they receive direct sun till around 11am, and dappled for the rest of the day.

 

[August44]

Doing good so far, started with the 100+ degrees heat index. The next two weeks will be between 90-103 with 100+ heat index daily. They will stay under the bench where they receive direct sun till around 11am, and dappled for the rest of the day.

View attachment 493156

How big are those leaves?

 

[RKatzin]

My question is how cold does it get down there in the winter?
You can make accommodations for the heat of summer, shading and watering, ect, but if your winter temps are too high for the tree to achieve dormancy it will not survive. It may take a few years, but eventually it will be exhausted.