Urbandori collection on a budget

[Agriff]

I'm getting this rather big yew yamadori from a friend/neighbor this afternoon Any recommendations for how to take care of it? I was thinking of ball and burlap to transport and then transplanting into my yard for a few years to recover, but my bonsai club thinks I should put it into a grow box with bonsai soil or pumice right away.

The problem is that I think a couple cubic feet of pumice would be outrageously expensive- boon mix even moreso. A gallon of pumice on stone lantern is on sale for $17, and I would need what, 30 gallons? Maybe more? That's easily $500 which is more than I can float right now.

Am I definitely going to kill this tree if I put it in a box with Napa 8822 (diatomaceous earth) and pine mulch? Would I be better off digging a big hole in my backyard and backfilling it with that substrate instead?

I'm trying to do the right thing but also be realistic here. Also to be honest my neighbor wants this done today and I could maybe delay for a few days but if I don't pick up soon enough he'll probably just kill it.

4b if that matters, and no it's not that snowy, the pic was from a few weeks ago.

 

[bonsaichile]

Go to any garde or construction supply store. That's where I get my pumice from. i have never paid those prices

 

[ajoe]

I agree with @bonsaichile, but if that doesn't work, try a local nursery, but do pay any attention to the retail store, instead ask for the product in bulk packaging. They probably have the same stuff in the back that they use for potting, but they sure don't pay those small-bag prices.

For example, I recently bought a BIG 4 cu. ft. bag of Perlite for $25.00. That is 120 quarts. But at the same place, in the retail store, they sell 2 qt bags of perlite for $8.99. So to get the same 4 cu. ft. of perlite in the retail store $539.40.

 

[Colorado]

I would definitely not try to plant it into the ground for recovery. I agree with your club that you should make a wooden box for it.

I also agree that you should use pumice. Don’t use boon mix.

You don’t need 30 gallons of pumice. Nowhere close to it. One of the fundamental principles of collecting is that the collection container should be as small as possible to contain the root ball. There should only be an inch or two around the root ball on all sides that you need to fill in with pumice. You won’t need more than a bag or two of pumice if the box is the right size.

Good luck! Looks like a back breaker

 

[R0b]

Is it a Taxus?

iIf it is Taxus no need to be very gentle and timing isn’t an issue if the buds are not yet extending. Depending on conditions it might have ground layered itself and have a decent amount of fine roots near the trunk. If it has decent fine roots cut back any structural roots to fit into a future bonsai pot now so you don’t have to redo it later. Build a box that can contain the fine roots the finest can be folded to fit, do’t leave large areas without root (place a divider in the box if needed. For recovery after digging bonsai grade pumice would be excessive, generic pumice is good enough, but you could also go for a 1 part nursery soil, 1 part bark, 1 part pumice (or a similar mix). Give two years for recovery and than repot in an appropriate container.

Used this recipe for a few Taxus with good success.

 

[rockm]

Pumice is great, but a tub full isn't completely necessary--BTW, the Minnesota Bonsai Society lists bulk cubic foot bags of the stuff for $35, as well as other soils in bulk. Your club might also have some sources for bulk soil? Turface and soil conditioner might work for a while--a 50lb bag of Turface is around $30 in your area. Composted pine bark soil conditioner is sold in 30lb bags bags at Lowes (about $8 or a little more), it works pretty well combined with 2/3 more Turface.

Also, at some point, the tree is going to need to be potted in decent soil (not to mention a pot that fits). Can't really see the exact size, but it looks pretty large...I have trees that have pots large enough to hold ten gallons of soil. I have developed a source for the soil, the pots took some looking though. A decent Chinese pot in that size ballpark is going to be well over $300-$500 if you can locate one.

Big trees come with big problems.

 

[R0b]

The tree in the picture has a base over 25 cm and it spent two years in a 50 cm round container of which it used 20 cm in height. I was a beginner when I dug it and the 50 cm diameter was ok (could have been smaller) but the 35 cm height was excessive.

If it is Taxus it a good first tree to collect as they are forgiving of beginner abuse.

 

[Agriff]

How do I determine the correct size of the root ball? And how long can this tree stay out of the ground balled and burlapped before it needs to get into substrate? Do I need to delay things if I need time to pick up supplies and build this box or can it wait out of the ground for a day or two? I'm leaning towards turface because even though pumice does appear available through MBS the pickup might have to wait and the turface that @rockm linked is only a 30 min drive away. I've been calling garden stores and no luck on bulk pumice but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree and need to look at Home Depot and the like? In any event, if I do go the turface route should I mix it with anything?

 

[August]

Go to any garde or construction supply store. That's where I get my pumice from. i have never paid those prices

Where in denver are you getting pumice at garden or contruction supply stores? I've only ever been able to track down build-a-soil bags at hydro stores. Unless thats what you mean by garden supply.

 

[bonsaichile]

Where in denver are you getting pumice at garden or contruction supply stores? I've only ever been able to track down build-a-soil bags at hydro stores. Unless thats what you mean by garden supply.

I got several bags right before Paulino's closed down and still have several cubic feet left. Try the landscaping supply store on Sheridan and Ralston. I've seen pumice there and they sell it by the cubic foot if I am not mistaken

 

[R0b]

How do I determine the correct size of the root ball? And how long can this tree stay out of the ground balled and burlapped before it needs to get into substrate? Do I need to delay things if I need time to pick up supplies and build this box or can it wait out of the ground for a day or two? I'm leaning towards turface because even though pumice does appear available through MBS the pickup might have to wait and the turface that @rockm linked is only a 30 min drive away. I've been calling garden stores and no luck on bulk pumice but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree and need to look at Home Depot and the like? In any event, if I do go the turface route should I mix it with anything?

The size of the rootball is hard to say from a distance. What is the diameter of the trunk? What size would be an appropriate bonsai container for that. Try to cut structural roots as short as possible so that they fit in a future bonsai container but any fine roots can be left longer to help with recovery. There might be multiple layers of roots that have to be reduced from the bottom see picture. In it I just cut of all structural roots going down, in the example I did it after recovery which with this tree was good as it lacked fine roots and struggled for a year. Size of the box as close as possible to the final container and as said before avoid sections in it without roots.

again this is assuming it is a Taxus

 

[rockm]

How do I determine the correct size of the root ball? And how long can this tree stay out of the ground balled and burlapped before it needs to get into substrate? Do I need to delay things if I need time to pick up supplies and build this box or can it wait out of the ground for a day or two? I'm leaning towards turface because even though pumice does appear available through MBS the pickup might have to wait and the turface that @rockm linked is only a 30 min drive away. I've been calling garden stores and no luck on bulk pumice but maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree and need to look at Home Depot and the like? In any event, if I do go the turface route should I mix it with anything?

Size of the root ball depends on how many feeder roots you can get comfortably. It's a pretty large variable. The quicker you can get it into soil the better. A couple of days in a b&b that's kept from drying out will work. Mix the turface with some kind of porous organic like composted pine bark by soil 80 percent, bark 20 percent.

 

[Agriff]

Update! This is the progress we've made so far. Do you think I trimmed too much off? We had trouble getting close enough to the base with shovels. We're doing our best to keep as many roots as possible but we also need to be able to get this thing out of the ground. I'm going to be building a box and picking up 100lbs of pumice from a fellow bonsai club member ($80) which should hopefully be enough! Apologies for the shitty after pic, my yew donor is not a bonsai person and I didn't realize that the base isn't pictured until after.

 

[Agriff]

again this is assuming it is a Taxus

Thank you so much for your feedback! I do believe it is a taxus but not sure the species. Baccata pehaps?

There should only be an inch or two around the root ball on all sides that you need to fill in with pumice. You won’t need more than a bag or two of pumice if the box is the right size.

So when I'm putting this in a box, I'm not removing very much soil from the roots itself? Is it going to be ok that the root ball will be moisture retaining and the perimeter will be fast draining?

 

[Agriff]

Forgot you can't delete comments on here

 

[Colorado]

Thank you so much for your feedback! I do believe it is a taxus but not sure the species. Baccata pehaps?


So when I'm putting this in a box, I'm not removing very much soil from the roots itself? Is it going to be ok that the root ball will be moisture retaining and the perimeter will be fast draining?

You want to leave an intact root ball of native soil. Yes it is ok that the root ball will be moisture retaining and the perimeter fast draining. You will change that out over successive repots.

 

[R0b]

Thank you so much for your feedback! I do believe it is a taxus but not sure the species. Baccata pehaps?

Can’t be sure from the picture but it does look like Taxus baccata but that wouldn’t be a sure identification. But that does mean it will be forgiving of mistakes, I dug four and only two struggled of which one after collecting and the other after bare-rooting it to remove the field soil, not recommended practice, but all live for now

 

[BobbyLane]

Can’t be sure from the picture but it does look like Taxus baccata but that wouldn’t be a sure identification. But that does mean it will be forgiving of mistakes, I dug four and only two struggled of which one after collecting and the other after bare-rooting it to remove the field soil, not recommended practice, but all live for now

Sounds like youve been lucky, I dont think theyre forgiving at all or tolerant of beginner mistakes, theyre finnicky and prone to a good long sulk like most other conifers. Its well documented that they can seem alive for months then conk out on you.

 

[RJG2]

Sounds like youve been lucky, I dont think theyre forgiving at all or tolerant of beginner mistakes, theyre finnicky and prone to a good long sulk like most other conifers. Its well documented that they can seem alive for months then conk out on you.

This is my experience with the first and only I've tried collecting so far.

 

[BobbyLane]

I attempted a difficult collection from the allotment a few years ago, there were two growing beside a fence in a concrete ditch, could only get leverage from one angle, they came out but didnt get much root. maybe you can get away with that with elm or privet...
This is the only nursery one that has survived for me and this was a bare root job in Aug/Sept, without cutting much of the roots and going straight into a large tub of kaizen 3 conifer mix, all others even when not done any root work and kept dry over winter have browned and died within weeks/months of applying some wire.
When you talk about 'forgiving' I reserve those comments for species like elm, privet, hornbeam. in my own experience.

Taxus development

This is a nursery yew i picked up about a year ago about this time. it was pruned and bare rooted you could say, because most of the old soil was removed by hand and from dipping the root ball in a water butt! but the majority of root ball was kept and intact and the tree went into another...

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