Upcoming plans for this JBP - Am I on the right track?

[Gert]

Hey Pine Nuts,

Was looking for a bit of advice as to whether I'm on the right track with this pine. I've made some errors in the past with JBP and would like to learn as much as I can. In order to gather as much learned experience as possible I've started some seedling cuttings this year as well as picked up some 2 year old seedlings. In addition to these I have a few 4/5 year old trees and finally, this larger (but still small) Japanese black pine. I think if I can learn the different grow out stages by using this material it will help me in the long run.

On to the pine in question -- I picked up this tree last year and just let it grow and fertilized it. The only thing I did was wire the lower branches down so that light penetration would be better. My intention wasn't to wire them into place for a final styling so it's kind of a shoddy job and doesn't make any sense stylistically. My plan is to decandle in late June/July 4th weekend and then apply some wire while removing the wire I put in place just to spread the tree out for sun. I'm not sure if the lowest branches need to go but it seems like if they do I will remove them this fall. The tree seems healthy after a year on my bench and I just want to know if this seems like a good plan. The tree is really bushy right now so it's difficult to see the structure but I'll include some pictures of when I received the tree, when I wired the branches down and then the tree as of today.

I'd also like to get this tree in a container in spring 2022.

I think I like the size of this tree. It's larger than shohin and I don't think I'd like to grow the trunk out further. I think my intention with this tree is to attempt to learn some refinement techniques so that I'm prepared for when I take the plunge on a tree with a little more movement that is ready for refinement.

I'd appreciate advice from the JBP Nuts out there. I've read through Bonsai Tonights's Pine book, BVF's pine book and a few others. They have been great resources but I'd also like some interactive feedback if anyone would be so kind as to chime in.

I plan to update this thread with any next steps I take. I might start another thread for the other younger JBP material on my bench as well.

-Gert

 

[Ryceman3]

Hey Gert,
That sounds like a pretty solid plan to me.
I‘m assuming you have already got a fertiliser regime in place and are keeping with it to ensure your pine is at maximum vigour before you decandle. Make sure you thin needles at the same time, this will further add to light penetration etc and also is used to balance energy across the whole tree. Shoot selection is also something you’ll need to consider (down to 2 at each junction) to avoid structural issues when it comes time to style your tree.
Your reading/research seems good and the strategies you are looking at with the seedlings etc make a lot of sense.
Good luck with it!

 

[Adair M]

This is a good tree to use to learn refinement techniques. The major flaw I see is a general lack of taper in the trunk. Realistically, there’s little you can do to fix that. Once you get a nice domed crown on the tree, it will look just fine.

Yes, the tree looks strong and ready fir decandling. Your timing sounds about right since you are in Texas.

Good luck with it!

 

[Hartinez]

Not to take anything away from any other advice you get, but I’d def listen to @Adair M when it comes to JBP. His Pinus are biggest and most plentiful of all the nuts!!!

 

[Gert]

Thanks all for your input. I'll go ahead and decandle and see where it takes me. @Adair M the lack of taper is definitely something I've been wrestling with. Do you think if I were to attempt to grow the leader from the top and make it a taller tree it would be worth it? Or is that a fool's errand? I guess weighing whether I want to move forward on learning refinement or planning for a few years-long taper project. I think both would help in my understanding of the species.

Thanks again all.

 

[Adair M]

Thanks all for your input. I'll go ahead and decandle and see where it takes me. @Adair M the lack of taper is definitely something I've been wrestling with. Do you think if I were to attempt to grow the leader from the top and make it a taller tree it would be worth it? Or is that a fool's errand? I guess weighing whether I want to move forward on learning refinement or planning for a few years-long taper project. I think both would help in my understanding of the species.

Thanks again all.

Well... take a look at this JWP:



As you can see, the main trunk does not have great taper. But, it still looks pretty good!

You can overcome the “taper flaw” if you get the other major elements right: thicker branches on the lower levels, and thinner branches up top, and by not having “too thick” branches anywhere. When the thickness of a branch is 1/3 as thick (1/4, actually) the trunk, then the branch is disproportionately large, and looks “out of scale”.

 

[Gert]

Thank you!

 

[Gert]

Been trying to use Jonas' guide to decandling.

Decandling black pine bonsai - an in-depth guide - Bonsai Tonight

An in-depth guide to decandling black and red pine bonsai with how-to steps that provide all the information you'll need to get started.

bonsaitonight.com

Tomorrow I will go in and pluck needles and remove wire and re-wire.

I'lll post updates then too. These needles from last year are super long because the tree wasn't decandled last year.

This was a lot of fun! I can see the appeal of JBP after doing a portion of the real work. Let's see how I feel tomorrow after needling plucking, lol.

 

[Gert]

Per Jonas'

• Strong areas – leave 3-7 pairs
• Medium areas – leave 5-9 pairs
• Weak areas – leave 7-12 pairs

The tree to my untrained eyes seems to be vigorous all over. I know it's just a single image, but based on the above general guidelines, would it be best to leave 12 needles on the bottom branches and 7 on the top? Trying to be conservative here to a degree.

Lastly, I'm not sure if this fall I will remove the lower branches completely. So this may be a moot point.

 

[Gert]

I am feeling like I removed too many needles. This thing really was covered in them though. I'm hoping I didn't reduce too much.

I did a pretty poor job wiring and I tore the branch circled in red a tiny bit bending it down. I don't know if it will live but at least it's in the top if it needs to be restarted.

The branch with the blue arrow comes straight out of 'the front.' Would y'all remove this branch in the fall or try to style it to the side like I have poorly attempted here.

I also think I could try to bend the branch below and to the right of this a little more, but I got a little skittish after the tear up top.

If you think I removed too many needles and did too much please speak up! I really hope this tree continues to thrive.

 

[Paradox]

I think you're fine with the number of needles you removed.
I looks like it was a pretty healthy tree.

Also right now isn't the best time to be wiring the tree.
We usually do that in the fall

 

[Gert]

Thanks @Paradox I hope so too! It was pretty amazing how many more tiny candles I found during my second pass through.

I thought I had read that a light wiring could be done immediately following decandling but this is my first time decandling a tree with this many buds. I am a novice through and through. I had heard that wiring in fall is best, like you've said.

 

[bwaynef]

Right after decandling is a good time to wire JBP. Not days later, but (ideally) during the same session as the decandling.

 

[Gert]

Thanks @bwaynef -- that makes sense. I hope I didn't do too much damage to the candles/potential buds while wiring. Appreciate all of y'alls input.

 

[n8]

I hope I didn't do too much damage to the candles/potential buds while wiring.

I reckon it'll be fine. It looks very healthy, timing is great and I think you're on the right track here. Nice work.

 

[Adair M]

Right after decandling is a good time to wire JBP. Not days later, but (ideally) during the same session as the decandling.

It is usually safe to wire JBP within a couple days of decandling. After a week, however, the new buds are starting to appear, and they are extremely fragile.

 

[Gert]

Thanks Adair and N8 -- I'll let this one be for a bit. Hoping I applied the techniques properly and didn't cause any damage to the tree. Took me a few guinea pig needles to get the needle pinch and roll with the tweezers, but I think I got it down.

 

[Dav4]

I assume you removed the candles on this one recently, along with the needle plucking? If so, you should think about needle plucking the new flush of growth this fall before applying wire… You can thank me later .

 

[Gert]

That's right, decandling and plucking. I think I'll take your advice! I'm hoping once I have some shorter needles it will make the needle pulling a little more manageable going forward. I was out there for a bit!

 

[Gert]

Here's the tree today. I'll remove the branch next to the red arrow as there is a much smaller less abrasive branch right behind it. Is fall the best time for a cut like that?