Woocash
Omono
Nice find! Look for penetrating epoxy. It serves to protect rotting beams etc and preserve from the inside out. You can always coat it with a finishing epoxy after.
Trying wood pots, coated with epoxy.
- Thread starter bcwoodcarver
- Start date
TN_Jim
Omono
What about using a torch prior? Would this really only be effective on more resinous wood types?
TN_Jim
Omono
Does a tuffa pot disintegrate more rapidly than a standard concrete pot? -some acidity in the peat moss breaking down the calcium I suspect??
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
It actually does. It is because the tuffa is so porous. I have used hundreds of pounds in fish tanks over more than 40 years and have seen a lot of it breaking down.
TN_Jim
Omono
Fascinating. So, how do you think that would translate relatively to a 1’ thick pot outdoors -what is deterioration in a tank over 5, 10, 20 years hypothetically (sure that’s abstract and dependent on array of conditions)?
Apologies @bcwoodcarver for the topic stray from topic / medium
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
Not possible to say but rate of decomposition is slow. Its going to vary as some is much denser and some more porous.
I would think that deterioration would be a lot slower in water, less oxgen, stable temperature, no wind, no sun, just my thoughts!
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I don't know, I would have thought the opposite, at least in an aquarium situation. I think the water aids in softening and dissolving the material. There are several pieces sitting around my yard that have shown almost no deterioration in several years. At any rate, in water or not, it is a slow process of weathering. The Grand Canyon wasn't carved in a day. I know its different rock but the process is the same.
I used to love my aquarium, 5ft wide, 3ft high, 2.5ft deep. I had all sorts in it. But we moved house and there was no where out of full sun it could go. On the rocks, you could well be right. Nice to bump into you again!
Leo in N E Illinois
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@TN_Jim & @penumbra
Warning - Leo's gratuitous "disambiguation page"
I got curious, so while having morning coffee I wandered through half a dozen Wikipedia pages.
Tufa - is a soft limestone, as in the limestone found at Mono Lakes, California. It soft, easily carved, very porous. It has been used as an aquarium decoration for tropical fish that prefer hard, alkaline water (for African Rift Lake cichlids). If exposed to freeze thaw cycles or acidic conditions, this rock will break down over time. Its porosity varies, the less porous the longer it will last in freeze-thaw cycling and the longer it will last in acidic water conditions. This rock is similar to travertine which forms in hots springs. Popular for certain architectural accent uses, and for carved art. Softer than marble, it will not hold detail like marble, but useful because it is relatively easy to shape blocks for construction. For example there are two bridges constructed of tufa in a park in Pittsburg, PA.
Tuff - is lithified volcanic ash that has been deposited during a volcanic explosion (for example, Mt Saint Helens, WA). It is viewed as both an igneous rock (volcanic) and a sedimentary rock. It is usually fairly soft. The large statues, moai, of Easter Island were carved from tuff. It is often called "tuffa" in the landscaping, aquarium, horticultural and art supplies trade. The term "tuffa" is not a technically correct term, but gets used a lot. This rock is often used in the aquarium trade and for carved "tuffa" pots in the horticulture and landscape trades. The chemical properties of tuff are similar to pumice and lava, largely inert, slightly acidic, highly porous. Because it is porous it will break down with freeze thaw cycling. As a landscape object, in warm regions it is very long lasting, in cold winter areas it will deteriorate over the course of multiple winters. The crumbling is part of its charm.
Hypertufa - also sometimes called tufa or tuffa, is a man made concrete product. Most common formula is portland cement, sand, aggregate and some organic material such as newspaper or peat moss. This product is used frequently for home "art projects". Usually hypertufa is cast, or poured into a mold, and allowed to set up. The resulting concrete is very soft, due to the organic component. It is weak, easily carved after it has set. It does not have the compressive strength of construction grade concrete. The organic component allows water to wick into, and out of the hypertufa. This allows mosses and epiphytic plants to easily colonies the outside of the container. Freeze thaw cycling will rapidly break down the container. The outer surface will spall off. This deterioration is part of the "charm" of hypertufa, as the intermediate states with moss growing and rounded features are considered attractive. Acidic water will also erode the hypertufa. In the horticulture trades, offen man made hypertufa gets referred to incorrectly as "tuffa" which can cause some confusion. I don't know how often hypertufa is used in the aquarium trade, but once the excess calcium hydroxide is leached out the the hypertufa, "cured" as in the way concrete tanks and ponds need to be "cured", it would be safe for aquarium use.
Hope this clears up which is which. So tufa is a soft limestone formed in ambient temperature lakes, springs and similar situations. Tuff is a volcanic ash sedimentary rock, and hypertufa is man made soft concrete product. All are frequently incorrectly referred to as "tuffa".
And I will admit, I went down this rabbit hole, because I didn't know which was which when the term "tuffa" was used. For those that are still curious, I will cite my sources.
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
Warning - Leo's gratuitous "disambiguation page"
I got curious, so while having morning coffee I wandered through half a dozen Wikipedia pages.
Tufa - is a soft limestone, as in the limestone found at Mono Lakes, California. It soft, easily carved, very porous. It has been used as an aquarium decoration for tropical fish that prefer hard, alkaline water (for African Rift Lake cichlids). If exposed to freeze thaw cycles or acidic conditions, this rock will break down over time. Its porosity varies, the less porous the longer it will last in freeze-thaw cycling and the longer it will last in acidic water conditions. This rock is similar to travertine which forms in hots springs. Popular for certain architectural accent uses, and for carved art. Softer than marble, it will not hold detail like marble, but useful because it is relatively easy to shape blocks for construction. For example there are two bridges constructed of tufa in a park in Pittsburg, PA.
Tuff - is lithified volcanic ash that has been deposited during a volcanic explosion (for example, Mt Saint Helens, WA). It is viewed as both an igneous rock (volcanic) and a sedimentary rock. It is usually fairly soft. The large statues, moai, of Easter Island were carved from tuff. It is often called "tuffa" in the landscaping, aquarium, horticultural and art supplies trade. The term "tuffa" is not a technically correct term, but gets used a lot. This rock is often used in the aquarium trade and for carved "tuffa" pots in the horticulture and landscape trades. The chemical properties of tuff are similar to pumice and lava, largely inert, slightly acidic, highly porous. Because it is porous it will break down with freeze thaw cycling. As a landscape object, in warm regions it is very long lasting, in cold winter areas it will deteriorate over the course of multiple winters. The crumbling is part of its charm.
Hypertufa - also sometimes called tufa or tuffa, is a man made concrete product. Most common formula is portland cement, sand, aggregate and some organic material such as newspaper or peat moss. This product is used frequently for home "art projects". Usually hypertufa is cast, or poured into a mold, and allowed to set up. The resulting concrete is very soft, due to the organic component. It is weak, easily carved after it has set. It does not have the compressive strength of construction grade concrete. The organic component allows water to wick into, and out of the hypertufa. This allows mosses and epiphytic plants to easily colonies the outside of the container. Freeze thaw cycling will rapidly break down the container. The outer surface will spall off. This deterioration is part of the "charm" of hypertufa, as the intermediate states with moss growing and rounded features are considered attractive. Acidic water will also erode the hypertufa. In the horticulture trades, offen man made hypertufa gets referred to incorrectly as "tuffa" which can cause some confusion. I don't know how often hypertufa is used in the aquarium trade, but once the excess calcium hydroxide is leached out the the hypertufa, "cured" as in the way concrete tanks and ponds need to be "cured", it would be safe for aquarium use.
Hope this clears up which is which. So tufa is a soft limestone formed in ambient temperature lakes, springs and similar situations. Tuff is a volcanic ash sedimentary rock, and hypertufa is man made soft concrete product. All are frequently incorrectly referred to as "tuffa".
And I will admit, I went down this rabbit hole, because I didn't know which was which when the term "tuffa" was used. For those that are still curious, I will cite my sources.
Tufa - Wikipedia
Tuff - Wikipedia
Hypertufa - Wikipedia
If I was doing a wood pot I would have it stabilized like we do Knife handle wood. You can send wood for stabilization see the following company. http://www.kandgstabilizing.com/ I have use. When done the resin will be through out the whole material. Its done with specilzed resin in vacum and then under pressure. Hard to do at home as well as a company with the right equipment. After that I might epoxy the surface is thats the finish I wanted.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
Thank you Leo for taking the time.
I have used both tufa and tuff but more regularly tufa in the aquarium business but more often the tufa. As you stated, I was using it for African Rift Lake cichlids and catfish in the early 1970s and later in marine systems. It created natural hiding spaces while it buffered the pH.
About 10 - 12 years ago I made about a hundred hypertuffa pots, most of which I sold to Merrifield Garden Center (they make their own now) and some I kept. Several of these I still have in very good condition but the ones that had less Portland eventually fell apart.
I have used both tufa and tuff but more regularly tufa in the aquarium business but more often the tufa. As you stated, I was using it for African Rift Lake cichlids and catfish in the early 1970s and later in marine systems. It created natural hiding spaces while it buffered the pH.
About 10 - 12 years ago I made about a hundred hypertuffa pots, most of which I sold to Merrifield Garden Center (they make their own now) and some I kept. Several of these I still have in very good condition but the ones that had less Portland eventually fell apart.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
It is a bit messy and I have seen it done, but I never got around to it myself. The equipment is all available on eBay or Amazon.
The size of the vacuum chamber is a limiting factor. You can make your own and many people have. A presure cooker works but is used with a vacuum pump instead to create a reverse pressure which draws the resin through the wood pores. Who knows, I may get around to it some day.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I have messed with it at home and know a number of makers that have. Most go back to just having the professional shop with the big equipment do it.
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