Trunk chopping for a fat, squat shohin. Help me wrap my head around it.

[Pygo]

I just picked up a Ficus nitida that’s about 4ft tall at the moment and maybe 2.5 inches thick. I’m planning on letting it grow out for a while, because I’d like to achieve a reeeeally fat base. I’ll most likely air layer the upper portions for the sake of propagation and let some side branches become the temporary leader(s) while it continues to grow out.

Anyway, when the time finally comes to chop it back, one thing I can’t get past is the fact that the larger the trunk, the larger the cut wound that has to heal over. I suppose time heals all wounds, but if I’m chopping a 5” trunk down to like 3-6 inches tall, that’s a massive flat spot that needs to be covered. What’s the strategy for hard chopping a large diameter trunk and eventually hiding that flat spot?

Ultimately, I guess I’ll just let it grow back and see what it does. But is there anything that can be done to sort of mitigate that ugliness?

I’m not fully set on what style I’ll go with this tree yet, but here are some example pics of what I’m talking about. I rarely see any progress pics/albums that show the progression in between chop and final form.

 

[dbonsaiw]

What’s the strategy for hard chopping a large diameter trunk and eventually hiding that flat spot?

You can hide the cut in the back of the tree. Many times, the cut will eventually be angled so the wound heals in a more natural, less flat, manner. Big scars are the trade off for fast growth. Another way is to use a cut and grow method so that the size of the cuts are smaller, but that may slow things down a bit (and folks do not even agree that it slows it at all).

 

[Pygo]

You can hide the cut in the back of the tree. Many times, the cut will eventually be angled so the wound heals in a more natural, less flat, manner. Big scars are the trade off for fast growth. Another way is to use a cut and grow method so that the size of the cuts are smaller, but that may slow things down a bit (and folks do not even agree that it slows it at all).

Cool, thanks! I think I’m envisioning option number two for this tree, but maybe with longer intervals between chops so I’m only dealing with medium sized scars lol. I guess we’ll see as time goes on

 

[Shibui]

Trunk thickness in the shortest possible time seems to be the goal of many. Unfortunately that comes with negative outcomes - the large scar is only one of the possible downsides.
Yes, you can try to hide it behind the trunk but it will still be there. Ficus don't heal particularly quickly and the wood is very soft so large cuts are very prone to rotting. Once the heart wood has started to rot the tree can't heal over at all.

I'd encourage growers to consider taking a slightly longer term view and take a few more years to achieve the same trunk with less cuts and problems. Cut and grow works well with ficus. Most ficus will thicken even when trimmed and grown in smaller containers so maybe we don't need to do the huge grow and massive chop.

 

[Pygo]

Trunk thickness in the shortest possible time seems to be the goal of many. Unfortunately that comes with negative outcomes - the large scar is only one of the possible downsides.
Yes, you can try to hide it behind the trunk but it will still be there. Ficus don't heal particularly quickly and the wood is very soft so large cuts are very prone to rotting. Once the heart wood has started to rot the tree can't heal over at all.

I'd encourage growers to consider taking a slightly longer term view and take a few more years to achieve the same trunk with less cuts and problems. Cut and grow works well with ficus. Most ficus will thicken even when trimmed and grown in smaller containers so maybe we don't need to do the huge grow and massive chop.

Forgive my misunderstanding, but it seems like your advice contradicts itself. On one hand you say large cuts are not ideal, which implies that smaller, more frequent cuts would be better. But in the last paragraph, you say to take the long approach and do less cuts to the trunk, which implies doing larger chops.

I’d be happy to chop back sooner than later(if that’s what you’re implying), so I’d have something kind of resembling a bonsai, rather than a large shrub lol. I’m just not sure at what interval would be best

 

[Shibui]

Apologies for the wrong words. Final para should say smaller cuts, meaning more regular chops of smaller size than one single larger cut.
The implication is also that slightly slower growth gives us a chance to address any issues before they get too big to solve.

Can't help with intervals. Like most bonsai related activities growth depends on may factors - climate, pot size, care, nutrient and water, etc. Timelines will be different in different places, for different growers, and often from one tree to the next. Work according to the tree rather than a calendar.

 

[Pygo]

Apologies for the wrong words. Final para should say smaller cuts, meaning more regular chops of smaller size than one single larger cut.
The implication is also that slightly slower growth gives us a chance to address any issues before they get too big to solve.

Can't help with intervals. Like most bonsai related activities growth depends on may factors - climate, pot size, care, nutrient and water, etc. Timelines will be different in different places, for different growers, and often from one tree to the next. Work according to the tree rather than a calendar.

All good, thanks for the clarification! By interval, I was more referring to size, not time. Ie. “Chop every time the leader reaches an inch” or some such size guide. I guess I could be clearer too lol. But I suppose that’s subjective as well, depending on the goal. This tree has some nice low branches to chop to, so I guess I’ll air layer sooner than later and just let it do it’s thing for a while

 

[Shibui]

By interval, I was more referring to size, not time. Ie. “Chop every time the leader reaches an inch” or some such size guide. I guess I could be clearer too lol. But I suppose that’s subjective as well, depending on the goal.

Spot on. Size relative to the finished product. If I'm going for a 1m tall tree with a 30 cm trunk diameter I could probably chop at 3-4 cm diameter but if I'm shooting for a tiny 10cm tall tree chops less than 1 cm in the early grow stages and less than that as it approaches final branching stages.
I'm also only really familiar with ficus rubiginosa, F. macrophyla and F. carica, all 3 are hardy and grow fast so have potential to heal better than some other slower species so it's hard to generalise for the whole genus.

 

[MHBonsai]

Thread 'Ficus Exotica Shohin - Progression'

Apr 4, 2022

Back in March of 2019, watching the facebook auctions I stumbled on this. Labeled as a Ficus Exotica. Never heard of it...but found this article from Jerry - so I jumped on it. Very similar to willow leaf Ficus salicaria - but slightly thicker/shorter leaves.

Ficus ‘Exotica’ | Bonsaihunk's Blog

The thickness of the base trunk and the massive first branch/second trunk caught my eye. I ended up getting it delivered from Wigerts for about $80.00 door to door. Excellent vendor btw.



I immediately repotted, and found what I was hoping...

• MHBonsai
• Replies: 23
• Forum: Tropicals

• 
• 
• 

 

[MHBonsai]

The biggest thing to focus on after a big trunk chop is tree health and aggressive growth with Ficus. They will heal big wounds, but you may need to fill the wounds with epoxy to keep them covering up. That’s what I did with the tree in the link above.

For big chops on Ficus, I try to make sure I have a good location for a leader to pop, and a first branch the opposite side to be sure it is driving the wound to heal quickly and not die back. Then let it rock and roll!

 

[Pygo]

The biggest thing to focus on after a big trunk chop is tree health and aggressive growth with Ficus. They will heal big wounds, but you may need to fill the wounds with epoxy to keep them covering up. That’s what I did with the tree in the link above.

For big chops on Ficus, I try to make sure I have a good location for a leader to pop, and a first branch the opposite side to be sure it is driving the wound to heal quickly and not die back. Then let it rock and roll!

That’s a beautiful tree you’ve got there! I stumbled upon that post a few days ago lol. I’ll definitely be leaving a branch or two on the initial chop. The tree I chose has some good branch placement to work with.

From first chop to now, how much would you say the base has thickened over time? It definitely looks thicker and more mature/developed which gives me hope. But it’s hard to get a sense of scale for the difference in growth

 

[MHBonsai]

That’s a beautiful tree you’ve got there! I stumbled upon that post a few days ago lol. I’ll definitely be leaving a branch or two on the initial chop. The tree I chose has some good branch placement to work with.

From first chop to now, how much would you say the base has thickened over time? It definitely looks thicker and more mature/developed which gives me hope. But it’s hard to get a sense of scale for the difference in growth

Good question. I’d say the trunk at the first big branch thickened by another third. I’d guess it went from 3” to 4” across. The nebari and flare has doubled since I’ve had it.

 

[Shibui]

Some of my ficus.
The smallest one. It's been in this pot around 3 years now but won't be able to go back in the same pot next repot.


Next size. attempt to develop shohin ficus. This one was a little bigger than the last when it went into this pot, probably 4 or 5 years ago. It will also need to go up a pot size next repot.


This next tree was also developed as shohin. A few years in a 4" nursery pot to develop then into the pot shown above for 5 or 6 years. 5 years ago I could not get it back in the white pot so had to upsize to this one. It has now thickened so much it won't be able to fit back in this pot. Not the greatest ficus bonsai but illustrates the continued trunk thickening.


All these trees have been continually trimmed and defoliated throughout their development but still keep thickening.

 

[Pygo]

Some of my ficus.
The smallest one. It's been in this pot around 3 years now but won't be able to go back in the same pot next repot.
View attachment 561082View attachment 561083

Next size. attempt to develop shohin ficus. This one was a little bigger than the last when it went into this pot, probably 4 or 5 years ago. It will also need to go up a pot size next repot.
View attachment 561084View attachment 561085View attachment 561086

This next tree was also developed as shohin. A few years in a 4" nursery pot to develop then into the pot shown above for 5 or 6 years. 5 years ago I could not get it back in the white pot so had to upsize to this one. It has now thickened so much it won't be able to fit back in this pot. Not the greatest ficus bonsai but illustrates the continued trunk thickening.
View attachment 561087

All these trees have been continually trimmed and defoliated throughout their development but still keep thickening.

That’s a great representation of what I was wondering, thank you! Im attempting to do a multi air layer on this trunk, so we’ll see how it looks in a few weeks time. I buried a portion of the base because the nursery pot it came in was badly lacking soil, but I’m looking forward to getting this chopped and beginning it’s development

 

[Shibui]

It is worth noting that all the ficus I posted above are seedlings. Seedlings develop that swollen base but cuttings from the same trees do not.
Low sacrifice branches might help enlarge the base.
I've also seen trunks split from below and held open with wedges or stones to enlarge the base of the trunk. Eventually the spaces should heal over to leave an enlarged lower base.
Aerial roots are sometimes trained to run down the trunk. They will also fuse to the trunk to enlarge it.

Good luck with the layers. Ficus generally very easy to strike cuttings or layers so you should have success pretty quickly.

 

[Pygo]

It is worth noting that all the ficus I posted above are seedlings. Seedlings develop that swollen base but cuttings from the same trees do not.
Low sacrifice branches might help enlarge the base.
I've also seen trunks split from below and held open with wedges or stones to enlarge the base of the trunk. Eventually the spaces should heal over to leave an enlarged lower base.
Aerial roots are sometimes trained to run down the trunk. They will also fuse to the trunk to enlarge it.

Good luck with the layers. Ficus generally very easy to strike cuttings or layers so you should have success pretty quickly.

Good to know, thanks for the tip(s)! If both of these air layers are successful, I might try out a few different methods. I’m currently looking into approach grafting and will likely give that a shot by fusing a bunch of cuttings to one of the trunks. Seems like ficus respond well to that, so, if successful, that may be the go-to method!