Trunk Chop 101?

[sorce]

I find that the natural angle of "dieback" is almost always best to trim back to after a straight cut, I've never seen a angle cut first look good later.

There is further to this....

While I firmly believe "trees don't care to be beautiful", (this is getting larger than I thought it would be) they are efficient and opportunistic, to a level of intelligence that I don't think we fully understand.

In this realm of the "natural dieback" pattern, I can't recall ever seeing a tree in nature not look good at what would be a natural "chop" or heavy prune.
I believe it has to do with the fact that in seeking the path of least resistance due to their efficiency, they are actually programmed to heal to what we would call "aesthetically pleasing" in bonsai.
I question if this does not even include purposefully rotting sections to allow faster regrowth over, by trees in nature.

They at least don't care to have a hole in a place, so long as there is great tissue surrounding it, to take full advantage of the easiest real estate to occupy to allow for transfer of water and nutrients through the trunk.

I believe we spend to much time worrying about this subject, because we seek this instant gratification an angled cut gives you.

It is more appropriate to make a straight cut, then work with the trees want to utilize the path of least resistance, and trim back your stub to this point, as best aesthetically as possible.

Let me show you some pics.

Sorce

 

[River's Edge]

That is a seriously important piece of info you shared. Much thanks.

River's Edge, thanks for the recommendation. Any further reading recommendations? I've been going through Peter Adam's book on Japanese Maples and learned a good deal.

Attached are 2 pics of one of my "Acer HomeDepotnium" trees (purchased at a big box store with similar name). It was the first I purchased and the trunk is almost 2" in diameter. I didn't properly deal with his roots when planted and will comb them out and maybe cut the tap root etc. (right before spring????). There's some nebari on opposite sides that has been covered a bit by wind, watering. This will be my first ever trunk chop.

I've purchased some more of these trees this season and got them into larger pots. At $15 for no less than 1" caliper and an array of foliage among the plain vanilla green JMs, I simply couldn't find better trees to learn on. Also keeps my bonsai nursery-bought trees safer from my impetuous nature (a guy's gotta cut something!!!).

Personally I have not found better resources than Peter Adams and Andrea Merigiolli for specific techniques pertaining to maples. Could be lots of other sources out there I am not aware of! The Meriggiolli book is outstanding for detailed techniques developing a variety of styles. The principles underlying the numerous techniques and specific timing of application have broad transfer to developing deciduous trees in general. If I could only have one book pertaining to deciduous in my library it is the one I would choose.
After that the focus could turn to design and aesthetics of development so the techniques can be used for the best results!

For your first time, I would suggest keeping it simple, take your time and observe how the tree responds.Take Chapter two in the Adams book, choose one of the development methods he suggests and follow his guidelines. NOTE: He also like Meriggiolli outlines methods using straight or slant cuts depending on style desired.
If and when you wish to get creative and start developing a variety of styles with more individual character than become familiar with the advanced techniques and processes outlined by Meriggiolli.

 

[sorce]

This is a real life version of that earlier illustration, this is my ficus.


That one will be layered there for a base so the transition didn't matter. That was a straight cut that never got treated. The growth allowed inside the curve ruined it too. It would have been quite easy to make this a nice transition, but more importantly, even now, or later after there is even more healing, I could go back and perform a small operation to make the outline pleasing again, without much risk to design.


This one was the next up. This was only a couple degrees out of straight across and was never treated/recut either.


It's transition is almost perfect and was only ruined by that small growth that shouldn't have been allowed.
(I had a neglectful year.)

I know for sure that first one was chopped to a small twig, you see how it had to build so much energy before beginning to heal.
That allows for less control over where the new tissue grows.
Cutting to a branch nearer desired thickness allows you better control of future growth.

Visualize the size of the heartwood, here's a visual.


If the white is the heartwood and the red is the tissue you have to grow in order to achieve the desired next segment thickness, the idea is to minimize the red "differential/tolerance/variable" in order to better control where it grows.

Not only that but....
If you consider this simpler birthday cake view...


If your yellow is future taper and the red is what you're risking dying back, you're on this clock where every day and winter it's left exposed is a design risk. One you can't go back on.



Better to have it almost done first, and not be afraid to go back after 4 years of healing to redress the perfect outline, that won't be perfect for another 4 years.

But hey...time is pretend.

Sorce

 

[dbonsaiw]

I will need to process this. Not sure I get it all, but will review before following up

 

[Attmos]

Chopping the tree will dramatically slow increase in diameter of the remaining trunk. THe more growth above the roots, the faster the increase in diameter. That is why chopping is done ONLY when the lower portion has reached the diameter you want in the final bonsai.

With an initial chop, CUT STRAIGHT across an inch or more ABOVE where you want the apex to begin. That will give maximum room for new buds to emerge in more places. It will give you more choices when you're choosing one to grow on to become the next extension of the tree (Maple and other deciduous trees involve MULTIPLE trunk chops to force taper into the trunk in a short space.).

Cut in spring. Seal the cut.

What if you already have a developed lead... the part that becomes the new trunk above the cut? I've developed a new lead shoot on what I believe to be a Cottonwood, but I don't want to kill it by chopping the trunk too closely....

 

[Attmos]

I like the way Andrea Meriggioli addresses the question of formation techniques for Maples. Essentially he notes that there is a wide variety of techniques available to aid in developing many styles. He devotes a full chapter to formation techniques describing when a flat cut is useful and when an oblique cut will be most beneficial. Also illustrates the multiple pruning steps that can be involved in trunk formation.
Essentially not one way!
Some styles benefit from trunk chopping straight across initially and finishing with angle or "V" shaped cuts. Some develop quickly with apical sacrifice and other styles require lower sacrifice branches. Often multiple techniques are applied within the same development over time.
Great written resource for those who may wish to expand their techniques to develop trees that display variety of development.


BONSAI MAPLES Author Andrea Merriggioli published 2019

It's true. We should be reading books instead of relying on conversation to learn. I intend to look for few, thanks for the reference.

 

[rockm]

What if you already have a developed lead... the part that becomes the new trunk above the cut? I've developed a new lead shoot on what I believe to be a Cottonwood, but I don't want to kill it by chopping the trunk too closely....

That existing top is NOT the top the tree should have down the road. The apex on a bonsai developed LAST. Keeping it will make the tree push most new growth at the top of the tree. You will lose most lateral branches on the bottom half of the tree.

TryI g to keep existing branching on raw stock like this is primary misunderstanding of how to make a bonsai. It’s a common beginner mistake. You will not compromise the health of the tree by removing it. What you will do is stimulate low branch and tighter twigging of the growth that will replace it

 

[rockm]

It's true. We should be reading books instead of relying on conversation to learn. I intend to look for few, thanks for the reference.

Nope. It’s the exact opposite. Listening to someone who knows what’s what is far FAR more instructive than a book. Hint-those iinds of people are mostly not in the internet. They are local in clubs etc

I have roughly 300 bonsai books in bookshelves dating back to the 1950s. I rarely read them now. They were valuable for knowledge back in the 80s and 90s but they covered limited ground. Wasn’t until I joined a club and took instruction from experienced bonsai people that my trees leapt forward exponentially

One of my bookshelves

 

[Attmos]

Nope. It’s the exact opposite. Listening to someone who knows what’s what is far FAR more instructive than a book. Hint-those iinds of people are mostly not in the internet. They are local in clubs etc

I have roughly 300 bonsai books in bookshelves dating back to the 1950s. I rarely read them now. They were valuable for knowledge back in the 80s and 90s but they covered limited ground. Wasn’t until I joined a club and took instruction from experienced bonsai people that my trees leapt forward exponentially

One of my bookshelves

I would argue that learning the basics in an organized manner is probly the best way to do anything as a beginner.

 

[Attmos]

That existing top is NOT the top the tree should have down the road. The apex on a bonsai developed LAST. Keeping it will make the tree push most new growth at the top of the tree. You will lose most lateral branches on the bottom half of the tree.

TryI g to keep existing branching on raw stock like this is primary misunderstanding of how to make a bonsai. It’s a common beginner mistake. You will not compromise the health of the tree by removing it. What you will do is stimulate low branch and tighter twigging of the growth that will replace it

More than that, reading books (plural), gives you a solid sense of the different approaches.

 

[leatherback]

Different people, different optimal routes of learning.

I find there is a store f wealth in books, as well as online. But hands-on working on the tree is required to truely understand and feel how a tree responds. If you have hands-on support from someone who has done this for a decade, it will help you speed over the speedbumps much faster and smoother, as the know the road and where the traps are.

For me, book & internet are the basis, on top of my extensive education in biology. The hands-on workshops & watching listening to the workshop leader ALSO (particularly) when they discuss the work to be done on other persons' trees is the 4D vision needed to look into the future path.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Books are great, but nothing beats hands on experience. I find that books can provide a great general overview of bonsai to help get us started. Hands on experience and trial and error is the real teacher. I agree that clubs and working with people who have decades of experience is really the way to learn much faster. Video tutorials are also great, especially once you parsed out the videos of “instant bonsai” and the like. Leatherback has a ton of helpful videos. You will have to get your hands dirty and make mistakes even with the best videos and tutorials.

 

[BrightsideB]

A quick comment about this one point...

Change your perspective about sacrifice growth. It doesn't have to be letting the apex run - it can be anywhere. You could grow a nice maple bonsai that is 12" tall, then decide you want the trunk to thicken and get more taper, and grow a big sacrifice branch out of the lower back of the tree while still maintaining the existing upper part of the bonsai with its existing apex. Remove the sacrifice growth, and you have a scar in the back of the trunk that will have to heal over time, but only you will know it is there

The other thing about maples... you can actually get them to grow outwards at the soil line - particularly if you plant them on a tile and spread the roots radially. As the tree grows, the roots will get correspondingly thicker, and the trunk at the soil line will broaden substantially.

View attachment 405395

How do you attach it to the tile? I’ve seen wood and plastic used. But a tile seems most ideal and more firm if thick enough to not break. Or is tile just the general term for flat surface under the trunk to get this result? I tried this technique and realized without it being screwed on just pushes upward rather than outward.

 

[dbonsaiw]

How do you attach it to the tile?

It could be any flat surface. You can drill a hole through the tile and then use a nail and washer to fix it to the tree.

 

[rockm]

How do you attach it to the tile? I’ve seen wood and plastic used. But a tile seems most ideal and more firm if thick enough to not break. Or is tile just the general term for flat surface under the trunk to get this result? I tried this technique and realized without it being screwed on just pushes upward rather than outward.

Wire it to the tile or whatever flat surface you’re using. Hard plastic PVC trim board, high density polyethylene plastic board can be drilled for wire pretty easily what works as a base is up to your imagination. Must be inert and rot free.

 

[BrightsideB]

Wire it to the tile or whatever flat surface you’re using. Hard plastic PVC trim board, high density polyethylene plastic board can be drilled for wire pretty easily what works as a base is up to your imagination. Must be inert and rot free.

Leaving out the material for the surface. What in your opinion works best to secure the tree. A wire or screw?

 

[rockm]

Leaving out the material for the surface. What in your opinion works best to secure the tree. A wire or screw?

depends on the root mass and the nebari. Screws can split a base if you’re too agressive

 

[River's Edge]

Different people, different optimal routes of learning.

I find there is a store f wealth in books, as well as online. But hands-on working on the tree is required to truely understand and feel how a tree responds. If you have hands-on support from someone who has done this for a decade, it will help you speed over the speedbumps much faster and smoother, as the know the road and where the traps are.

For me, book & internet are the basis, on top of my extensive education in biology. The hands-on workshops & watching listening to the workshop leader ALSO (particularly) when they discuss the work to be done on other persons' trees is the 4D vision needed to look into the future path.

Agreed, everyone has preferred learning styles, some remember everything they read and hear others pick up the most from watching others. For myself the best learning form is guided practise. With Bonsai this involves working with a master that can correct your technique while you practise. This is a huge benefit particularily when practising technique. Wiring is so much easier with proper technique. Branch and pad placement. Pruning etc.
I agree that many of the books written and many of the video demos deal primarily in generalities as opposed to detailed factual explanations or pictures/ illustrations to provide guidance. My library focuses on the reference type material that one can go back to and pick up more information each time. Of course at my age that has become easier as some of what I had learned can seem new again. Just kidding! Perhaps?
Guided practise was instrumental in the beginning and as long as I continue to show it to others, it will be easier to remember as well.
Watch one, Do one, Teach one! Or two, three, four times.

Quality photography of top show material is very valuable for reference material in display and design options. A lot can be learned from books from Kokufu shows for example. Seriously, good reference material, I find very valuable.

Long explanation for the point of view that it never hurts to have more than one approach.

 

[leatherback]

Leaving out the material for the surface. What in your opinion works best to secure the tree. A wire or screw?

it is completely unnecessary to attach the tree to whatever you want to put below. Just need to do proper rootwork. And as @Shibui regularly points out..
If one does proper rootwork, you do not need to put anything below.

 

[River's Edge]

How do you attach it to the tile? I’ve seen wood and plastic used. But a tile seems most ideal and more firm if thick enough to not break. Or is tile just the general term for flat surface under the trunk to get this result? I tried this technique and realized without it being screwed on just pushes upward rather than outward.

One does not always have to secure base with a screw. If a title a series of small holes can be drilled as required and secure the tree roots with rafia. They can be secured tightly and will decompose before they harm the growing roots. Holding them in place long enough to form the desired direction.