Too late to repot Japanese Black Pine?

[James W.]

I am sure this question has been answered elsewhere but a quick search didn't show it up so I decided to put the question out there so everyone can find it.
I didn't get around to potting up my 3 year old seedling (for my 5 yr JBP contest) at the correct time this spring. The candles have now extended 3 - 6 inches. What harm will I be doing if I repot now? Can I get away with it?

 

[Adair M]

No.

That is...

It depends. Upon what you do to it.

But...

If you have to ask this question, then that means that no, you should not.

 

[James W.]

No.

That is...

It depends. Upon what you do to it.

But...

If you have to ask this question, then that means that no, you should not.

I think I should not, probably.
I need to take them out of their too-small 4" pots, trim off the escaped roots and put them into 8" diameter pots the same depth.
I will find some pictures tonight

 

[badatusernames]

Could you slip pot it? Take them out of the 4" pots and put them in the 8" and fill around with soil without disturbing the roots? Or is that bad for JBP?

 

[bwaynef]

A few weeks ago Adair mentioned somewhere that it was safe to repot JBP until the cherry blossoms fall. That's the sort of phenology I needed.

That said, ...and keeping in mind you've literally already received expert advice above, seedlings are much more forgiving than an older/established tree. For me, when I'm working with young material, I take every opportunity I can to get the roots sorted. If it was MY 3 year old seedling and the roots weren't already stellar*, I'd accept whatever setback came and repot it still. I'd probably alter the amount of rootwork I'd be comfortable doing ...and expect that the growth may either go limp or die off as the tree reorients to the amount of functional roots you leave. Concessions to humidity and shade might be necessary temporarily as well (which means you'd need to make plans for reintroducing it to sun/exposed conditions a few weeks later also). There does come a point where doing it becomes more risky than the reward. I'd do it, ...but if you can't get to it soon then you risk doing more damage than good.

Ultimately, its a dance and you need to judge whether you're comfortable providing suitable conditions and accepting the consequences.

*If you've got radial roots on a single level, maybe another year in a small pot would tighten things up a little.

 

[James W.]

Here is what I had been doing a month ago:

I already know that it is too late to try to wire big bends into the trunks, the bark just slips right off.

 

[James W.]

And a (crappy) shot of what they look like now:

 

[0soyoung]

I am sure this question has been answered elsewhere but a quick search didn't show it up so I decided to put the question out there so everyone can find it.
I didn't get around to potting up my 3 year old seedling (for my 5 yr JBP contest) at the correct time this spring. The candles have now extended 3 - 6 inches. What harm will I be doing if I repot now? Can I get away with it?

My suggestion is that you try repotting one now and just see what happens. My belief is that it will survive, but will be stunted and may even abandon the existing candles. Of course, you could get overly aggressive with the root work and kill it. It can happen even at the most opportune times.

AND/OR, you could try HBR instead of full bare rooting (or an analog for your 'style' of repotting).

FURTHER, you might remove all the candles (or just keep that one at the tip of your sacrifice) before you repot. The reasoning is based on extending buds require lots of water --> eliminate them reduces demand on the roots.


Another suggestion I have is that you will be able to do this successfully after the summer solstice, say Aug/Sep. If you don't decandle, most all of the extension is complete and the new foliage is hardened which can drive a lot of root growth.


Personally, I do not understand the point of a 'contest' where one just follows 'expert advice' per se. But you are the contestant and the trees are yours - you decide what to do.


BTW, if you simply knock off the pot, look for white root tips on the surfaces of the soil/substrate 'plug'. Got white tips? Yes, then roots are 'food to go' for repotting.

 

[Shibui]

Down here I would repot black pines with candles like those. I generally do my pines after all the maples are finished and have opened leaves. It is OK to repot earlier but I don't have any problem with later repots for black pines.
Beware of slip potting root bound pines (or for that matter ,most trees) Small circling roots will just become larger circling roots and be more difficult to deal with next year. It is frustrating to spend years developing a great trunk and branches then find the roots are crap.
It can also be difficult for roots and water to cross the boundary between old mix and new soil. At worst the tree will dry out and die even though there is moisture available in the new soil but the roots cannot access it.
When slip potting always rake out or cut some roots so the outer edges are rough. That helps the new roots move from one soil to the new soil.
Slip potting can help pot bound trees last another year or even grow a bit but nothing beats proper repotting if you want to end up with a show worthy nebari.
I'd rather have a small dead pine than an older tree with terrible nebari.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I worked over a couple of my seedling JBP from the 6-year contest a couple weeks ago, when they looked like yours. Bare-rooted them in fact, and they haven’t skipped a beat.

If your aftercare is good, I wouldn’t hesitate.

 

[James W.]

Because I have used RootMaker pots I have no circling roots and the only roots I have to remove are the escapees from the bottom.

 

[Timbo]

Found this thread, which was what I was looking for also, but my location is behind all you. My pines have extended candles but still enclosed. Just a few days ago night temps were around 30, now they are 36-45 degrees. Haven't had many pines up here, because they are hard to collect here in sand. I bought a older JBP from a nursery and wanted to get it out of the hard burlap bag. Just from what I've read it should be OK, but I've seen some say to repot when they "swell" before they get too long.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Found this thread, which was what I was looking for also, but my location is behind all you. My pines have extended candles but still enclosed. Just a few days ago night temps were around 30, now they are 36-45 degrees. Haven't had many pines up here, because they are hard to collect here in sand. I bought a older JBP from a nursery and wanted to get it out of the hard burlap bag. Just from what I've read it should be OK, but I've seen some say to repot when they "swell" before they get too long. View attachment 374889View attachment 374890

If those pix are current, you should be just fine.

 

[Timbo]

If those pix are current, you should be just fine.

Yeah, yesterday...thanks.

 

[James W.]

I repotted all of mine April 17 - 21.
They have not skipped a beat.

 

[Timbo]

The one I have is struggling, It was a B&B and had very little roots, I didn't use a root hook, just mostly washed off the clay. The bottom half of the rootball had zero roots. The only roots I took off was a circling root towards the top, and just a few long roots with no feeder roots on them. I kept all the small roots/feeder roots.

It was pretty bare, I don't know how it survived and pushed out that many candles. Trying to keep it out of the wind, but not many spots where I live out of the wind, I would like to put it in full sun but the lower/inner branches are drying up. It's in part sun right now. I figured being a B&B it would have less roots and circling roots, but it was pretty bare and mostly circling roots.
The top it still alive, the candles seem to be slowly losing the outer sheath, I don't know if they are still extending or not, but most look green underneath.

I hope it is just trying to rebalance, If anyone thinks there is something I could try to give it time to recover I would be happy to hear it. It's been pretty windy up here this year, which doesn't help, today was better though.