Timing for second cutting of JBP seedlings

[DirkvanDreven]

Mark Comstock replied on his facebook page:
Quote:
Take a cutting from a 2 month old seedling, root it then cut the stem shorter(3 to 4 wks) restick the cutting root it and over winter. Following spring with an old fashioned razor blade(2sided) and cut the roots flush to the trunk then stick as a cutting for the third time and something similar to this may or may not happen for you. There are a bazillion other contributing factors to the outcome that you will learn along the way, it took me 4 yrs to figure this out.

 

[DirkvanDreven]

thanks all for your reply's I'll have plenty of seedlings t experiment with!

 

[kingsville grower]

People ask why cut you pine seedling cuttings more than once? Because I want to grow jbp with 360 degree roots, nothing else, I don't want any gaps....that's it, no other reason. It's so much easier to cut off unnecessary roots that to make them appear

 

[Anthony]

Actually, what we observed over a 30 + period is it is
natural for J.B.pines as a soft wood to form surface roots
all around.

The cutting part of seedlings is probably more for lower
budding.
When you do the 3 foot cut down for trunk size seen in
Bonsai Today 12.

One author advised 3 inches, another author a cut down to 4 inches.
Tested the ideas work.

If you truly want to control the surface roots, do the cut and
place a tile of some sort under the seedling.
Guarantees the surface root formation.

You can probably lift the seedling at 3 to 4 years and make choices.

But there is already something like that in the Bonsai Today article.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[kingsville grower]

Ok.. I seen the remember a thread in this a while back. Not sure why one would do it though.

Actually, what we observed over a 30 + period is it is
natural for J.B.pines as a soft wood to form surface roots
all around.

The cutting part of seedlings is probably more for lower
budding.
When you do the 3 foot cut down for trunk size seen in
Bonsai Today 12.

One author advised 3 inches, another author a cut down to 4 inches.
Tested the ideas work.

If you truly wa the surface roots, do the cut and
place a tile of some sort under the seedling.

Actually, what we observed over a 30 + period is it is
natural for J.B.pines as a soft wood to form surface roots
all around.

The cutting part of seedlings is probably more for lower
budding.
When you do the 3 foot cut down for trunk size seen in
Bonsai Today 12.

One author advised 3 inches, another author a cut down to 4 inches.
Tested the ideas work.

If you truly want to control the surface roots, do the cut and
place a tile of some sort under the seedling.
Guarantees the surface root formation.

You can probably lift the seedling at 3 to 4 years and make choices.

But there is already something like that in the Bonsai Today article.
Good Day
Anthony

i don't have 30 years to wait, I am a market grower, speed and quality advancement aspects are what sell my plants, the photo below is an 18 month old seedling cutting, not gonna get here with a regular seedling 18 months, sold 500 of these in the past 2 months, I couldn't give away 18 month old regular seedlings.

 

[Anthony]

Point taken @kingsville grower,
Wish you operated down here.

No it didn't take 30 years, just letting you know there was experience tp
back up the response.
Testing an idea presently to see how long it takes to really pack on the
inches, if it is useful, will let you know.

Keep em growing well.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[evanjt]

People ask why cut you pine seedling cuttings more than once? Because I want to grow jbp with 360 degree roots, nothing else, I don't want any gaps....that's it, no other reason. It's so much easier to cut off unnecessary roots that to make them appear

How do you get those kind of results?

 

[River's Edge]

People ask why cut you pine seedling cuttings more than once? Because I want to grow jbp with 360 degree roots, nothing else, I don't want any gaps....that's it, no other reason. It's so much easier to cut off unnecessary roots that to make them appear

Excellent results because you are taking the time early on to pay attention to the detail. Well done. The key aspect that likely confuses many is the expression repeated pine seedling cutting as opposed repeating the radial stem cutting. However your pictures clearly illustrate the difference.

 

[DirkvanDreven]

Excellent results because you are taking the time early on to pay attention to the detail. Well done. The key aspect that likely confuses many is the expression repeated pine seedling cutting as opposed repeating the radial stem cutting. However your pictures clearly illustrate the difference.

I think you misread Frank: Mark clearly states thst the decond cutting is cutting the stem shorter. The optional third cutting is next spring, cutting ths roots flush to the trunk.

 

[River's Edge]

I think you misread Frank: Mark clearly states thst the decond cutting is cutting the stem shorter. The optional third cutting is next spring, cutting ths roots flush to the trunk.

Right, i see that now. Thanks. I was interpreting the picture above. Had to read the words a bit more closely. I often cut the stem shorter myself but leave the best set of lateral roots. Over the past several years i have started with shorter stems on the first cut. Approximately 3/4 inch stem. I have found this gives me better results. When i first started, I was leaving a pretty long stem thinking it would root better deeper down. Actually it just left me with more choices or more problems depending on how you look at it. Marks approach is clearly getting the results he is after.

 

[kingsville grower]

The point of cutting more than once is ______________????

So they do this before the first 6 months is over

 

[0soyoung]

So they do this before the first 6 months is over

Thanks for the response.

Six months ...
That is most interesting!

 

[kingsville grower]

thanks all for your reply's I'll have plenty of seedlings t experiment with!

These are photos of some 10 month old cuttings with the 3rd cuttings of the roots around February 10, this is the shohin technique, I have ROR technique, and medium size bonsai technique, these last 2 techniques I only cut the roots twice and I adjust where I allow the roots to emerge from the stem

 

[John in Toledo]

Wow. Such elegant guidance.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

This entire process is new for me, in pines at least.
Do you guys cut off all of the roots? Did i get that right?
And then, after some time, you do it again?
The entire root system?!
It sounds pretty risky to me, thats why I want to make sure that's whats going on here.

Why not just air layering above the existing root system so the tree doesn't lose much time/energy? It seems like a lot of work compared to cutting. But if it sounds like something that could work to you guys, I'd like to try it.

 

[evanjt]

This entire process is new for me, in pines at least.
Do you guys cut off all of the roots? Did i get that right?
And then, after some time, you do it again?
The entire root system?!
It sounds pretty risky to me, thats why I want to make sure that's whats going on here.

Why not just air layering above the existing root system so the tree doesn't lose much time/energy? It seems like a lot of work compared to cutting. But if it sounds like something that could work to you guys, I'd like to try it.

Cutting off all the root system on young pine seedlings / any seedlings is possible given the right after-care.

It helps to promote a radial root flare and shortens the trunk section between the future first branch and the roots.

This in turn, is great for shohin bonsai.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Awesome, thanks a lot for clearing that up!
I'll go ahead and try it myself.
Would this work on other pines as well? I have some 6 month old JRP seedlings, some without flare. They are single flush I've been told, I'm not sure if that matter root-wise but I'd like to know peoples take on this.

 

[evanjt]

Awesome, thanks a lot for clearing that up!
I'll go ahead and try it myself.
Would this work on other pines as well? I have some 6 month old JRP seedlings, some without flare. They are single flush I've been told, I'm not sure if that matter root-wise but I'd like to know peoples take on this.

I don't know if it would work when they are that old but I have done it myself on some JRP seedlings.

By the way, JRP are double flush species just like JBP and for future reference, JWP is the single flush pine.

 

[Adair M]

I don't know if it would work when they are that old but I have done it myself on some JRP seedlings.

By the way, JRP are double flush species just like JBP and for future reference, JWP is the single flush pine.

And there’s lots of other single flush pines.

The other double flush that’s somewhat commonly used is Virginia Pine.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Oh I got them mixed up when it comes to flushes with my scots and other pinus. I guess those things happen when you go from 10 to 45 in a season.
I'll give it a go with a few of them and monitor progression. Most seedlings were sown in the end of fall so they haven't got their third set of needles yet.

Again, thanks a lot for the valuable info!