Thickening trunk indoors

[Newbonsai13]

Hi all! I was wondering the most efficient way to help my Brazilian Raintree thicken up in the trunk? I have to keep the tree inside because of my current climate in Michigan. I have had different suggestions, some saying to use a big, deep pot, and others saying to use a wide, shallow pot so the roots pull the trunk outward. This is my first BRT so any suggestions would be appreciated! Also, what soil mixture would be best?

 

[Tieball]

I admired a really nice good sized BRT at Growco in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I think what made it grow so well was the warmth, high humidity and a lot of lighting - overhead and all-around lighting. The lighting is also through the greenhouse glass walls. Fans keep the temperatures regulated I believe. And really, the guys at the store do know how to take care of trees. You might look into a smaller scale set up to provide heat, light and humidity. I didn’t ask much about their set-up....but everything there grow incredibly well.

 

[canoeguide]

I'm always interested in this as well. For now, I have been getting good running growth in a south-facing window without any supplemental lighting, so I haven't felt the need to add any light or heat.

I plan to repot my "twigs" (they aren't very thick) in the spring when it's consistently above 50f outside into much larger pots and to fertilize heavily.

Edit to add: I've got a moderate amount of Osmocote Plus on them *now*.

 

[coh]

The wide/shallow pot will help spread out the surface roots which will enhance the flare or swelling of the base, but won't do anything for the rest of the trunk. For that you just need growth, i.e. foliage. And to support that foliage a larger/deeper container is best, though you want to increase the container size in stages. Don't just plop it right into a much larger one right away.

People argue about whether you get the most thickening by letting branches extend as far as possible versus cutting them back and instead building a lot of smaller foliage filled shoots. I don't know if there will be much of a difference but no matter what you do, it's probably going to be really slow going with a BRT in Michigan where it has to be inside for 6 months or more.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Growth is a function of the number of leaves on the tree; the more leaves you have on the tree for the longest growing season you have, the more wood will be produced. Bonsai and high growth are nearly mutually exclusive terms. You can have one, or the other, or a reduced amount of one at the expense of the other. If your growing medium is a bonsai mix, you will get what that mix is intended to give you: a minimum of growth to hold a tree about the same indefinitely. Imagine one tomato plant grown in bonsai mix verses another tomato grown in a rich garden mix. The garden-grown plant has more resources and will grow more. The same amounts of fertilizer administered to both plants will help one more than the other. Non-bonsai nurseries grow plants big and fast in pots that have extra room, with good soil and 50% Pine Bark Soil Conditioner (small wood chips) that holds lots of moisture in the best sun conditions for those plants. They fertilize heavily during the growing season, get essentially unrestrained growth and prune for shape at the end of the growing season when they remove no growing leaves, or as few as possible. They repot as often as necessary to always have plenty of room for the growth expected. More often than not they slip pot into the next size up and never root prune. If the plant is rootbound the spring that it is brought to market, that's OK with them. To the extent that you mimic their efforts, you will get their results. Wintering over indoors will get you very little useful growth in winter. If you can keep it from being too set-back, that's as good as it gets in Michigan.

If your tree is in a generous pot that is wider rather than deep, it will produce roots that are closer to the surface of the soil. As long as you manage the location/relocation of the upper roots at repotting times, you may be able to manage a better than average nebari, but your question was how to make the trunk bigger. Growth makes big. The trunks of BRT often have twists that may or may not be influenced by changing the orientation of the tree from time-to-time, so if you do not want the twist which often makes it look like a reverse taper from one view or another, always face the proposed front of the tree towards the sun (at noon).

Sooner or later you will need to begin the downsizing back to bonsai reducing the roots gradually back to expected pot size and slower growing conditions. So, choose your poison bonsai or high growth.

 

[penumbra]

Get a grow light and keep it warm and growing. Mine has grown quite a bit since I brought it in. It is maintained at about 75 - 78 F daytime and about 66 - 70 F nighttime. It is under an LED plant grow light and a humidity of 44 to 54%. It is on a wick watering system so not wet but constantly just evenly most. Pot is medium depth. Plant is fertilized about every 2 weeks.

 

[Newbonsai13]

The wide/shallow pot will help spread out the surface roots which will enhance the flare or swelling of the base, but won't do anything for the rest of the trunk. For that you just need growth, i.e. foliage. And to support that foliage a larger/deeper container is best, though you want to increase the container size in stages. Don't just plop it right into a much larger one right away.

People argue about whether you get the most thickening by letting branches extend as far as possible versus cutting them back and instead building a lot of smaller foliage filled shoots. I don't know if there will be much of a difference but no matter what you do, it's probably going to be really slow going with a BRT in Michigan where it has to be inside for 6 months or more.

thank you

 

[Newbonsai13]

Growth is a function of the number of leaves on the tree; the more leaves you have on the tree for the longest growing season you have, the more wood will be produced. Bonsai and high growth are nearly mutually exclusive terms. You can have one, or the other, or a reduced amount of one at the expense of the other. If your growing medium is a bonsai mix, you will get what that mix is intended to give you: a minimum of growth to hold a tree about the same indefinitely. Imagine one tomato plant grown in bonsai mix verses another tomato grown in a rich garden mix. The garden-grown plant has more resources and will grow more. The same amounts of fertilizer administered to both plants will help one more than the other. Non-bonsai nurseries grow plants big and fast in pots that have extra room, with good soil and 50% Pine Bark Soil Conditioner (small wood chips) that holds lots of moisture in the best sun conditions for those plants. They fertilize heavily during the growing season, get essentially unrestrained growth and prune for shape at the end of the growing season when they remove no growing leaves, or as few as possible. They repot as often as necessary to always have plenty of room for the growth expected. More often than not they slip pot into the next size up and never root prune. If the plant is rootbound the spring that it is brought to market, that's OK with them. To the extent that you mimic their efforts, you will get their results. Wintering over indoors will get you very little useful growth in winter. If you can keep it from being too set-back, that's as good as it gets in Michigan.

If your tree is in a generous pot that is wider rather than deep, it will produce roots that are closer to the surface of the soil. As long as you manage the location/relocation of the upper roots at repotting times, you may be able to manage a better than average nebari, but your question was how to make the trunk bigger. Growth makes big. The trunks of BRT often have twists that may or may not be influenced by changing the orientation of the tree from time-to-time, so if you do not want the twist which often makes it look like a reverse taper from one view or another, always face the proposed front of the tree towards the sun (at noon).

Sooner or later you will need to begin the downsizing back to bonsai reducing the roots gradually back to expected pot size and slower growing conditions. So, choose your poison bonsai or high growth.

Wow! Thank you so much! I learned a lot reading this!

 

[M. Frary]

Don't know where in Michigan you are.
But.
For lighting go to a marijuana grow shop for all of your indoor lighting and indoor growing needs.
Those guys know their shit and will have everything you need.

 

[leatherback]

The trunks of BRT often have twists that may or may not be influenced by changing the orientation of the tree from time-to-time, so if you do not want the twist which often makes it look like a reverse taper from one view or another, always face the proposed front of the tree towards the sun (at noon).

Wow, I never knew what caused the swelling of a BRT. I thought it could not be steered and had to do with areas of the trunk having more or less active growth, like lifelines on juniper but without killing off the rest of the bark. Do you have more information or can you guide me to your source? I would love to understand this better.

 

[leatherback]

I was wondering the most efficient way to help my Brazilian Raintree thicken up in the trunk?

If you do find the magic way to go,please let me know!
I am growing out 4 BRTs from seed, started last year October. They have now about 1/4 - 1/2 inch trunks. Since about a month I have a LED light on a timer supplying an additional 3 hours of light, from 5:30AM to 8:30AM, which is about the time of sunrise at the moment. Then natural light till sunset, around 4:30pm. They are in a big pot, with organics rich mixture, sitting on top of a heater. In spring they will first move to my unheated greenhouse and then outside.

Note.. I have a bigger one (here) that still thinks it is summer in mid-winter. Growing like mad, and currently flowering, in December at Alberta latitude...

 

[Tieball]

Wow, I never knew what caused the swelling of a BRT. I thought it could not be steered and had to do with areas of the trunk having more or less active growth, like lifelines on juniper but without killing off the rest of the bark. Do you have more information or can you guide me to your source? I would love to understand this better.

Now that’s something I never knew....or even considered. Highly interesting.

 

[leatherback]

Now that’s something I never knew....or even considered. Highly interesting.

Note: My understanding is just based on pondering.. Now how would this swelling happen! Not any basis other than my thinking!

 

[Tieball]

Note: My understanding is just based on pondering.. Now how would this swelling happen! Not any basis other than my thinking!

I talked to a person in Sedona, Arizona, that explained the certain tree trunks in the Sedona area twist due to the vortex forces in that area. We were discussing a large twisted, beautiful Wisteria tree. Sounded believable to me. Amazing tree really. So twisting might happen too.
@leatherback ....The swelling....Sounds believable to me. I wonder, just because my mind wanders off at times, if the tree was on a slow turning turntable if the thickening would be uniform. Yeah...right. A weird thought. Sort of mostly off the post subject of thickening trunks indoors.

 

[leatherback]

@leatherback ....The swelling....Sounds believable to me. I wonder, just because my mind wanders off at times, if the tree was on a slow turning turntable if the thickening would be uniform.

I have not idea. Where are the resident Brazilians when you need them? @Clicio @Heitor Silva @Minas any thoughts?

 

[LanceMac10]

Here is the tree that is the subject of the OP. Already displays the beginnings of an "eagle claw" base. No deep pot needed here. BRT'S seem to grow more like a vine than a tree. Specially the "roots". Native to sandy/rocky shore areas, they want to send a fat root deep for anchorage. Not good if you want to put it in a pot. Force it to grow finer feeder-type roots. Get the base looking good before you worry about getting a bigger trunk. As the material lacks for character, create a nice base now or you'll end up with a telephone pole on a watermelon.

Just because you have a huge head of foliage, don't think that the wood you create is "equal". Branching enlargement will happen 2-3 times as fast as the trunk in most cases. Trust me, I've made these mistakes, and maybe still do!! Ya' gotta' be strategic.

 

[LanceMac10]

As far as a "mistake"...looking back at the first re-pot, I should have put it in a shallower pot and made the base better. A more "refined" look that theoretically aged nicely while then "growing a big trunk".

….what @coh mentioned yes, something "deeper" with more foliage will grow "more trunk...as I was the individual who suggested a wider, shallower pot, my advice was based on the material posted in ANOTHER thread of this material. As "THIS" Op is without context....."growin a bigger trunk"...even then, I should have just done this, it's more on the pot than in it....

late spring "16 after a couple years in this container, needed wider way too small. Grew fine, even looks ok for just coming outdoors not too long before. Never sloughed off bark on the trunk, though. No matter how much foliage....

'17....lot wider pot, old mica so not too deep. Root ball actually IN the pot...heheheeee...so the trunk is on a good path but top will need a re-design due to some taper issues...step forward, step back.

...again, specific to @Newbonsai13 material...

...another one in the garden....

 

[canoeguide]

I have no idea about trunk swelling due to orientation (and personally don't believe that is true.) All the research that I've done indicates that BRT branches swell the trunk growth around them - "pulling" the trunk outward. This branch pulling effect is so strong that it absolutely must be managed in BRT for bonsai, as reverse taper from some visual angles is almost impossible to avoid. Sacrifice branches can be used very effectively to widen the base if they are within an inch of the soil line.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Very often we get a a base that's too old/fixed in place when we acquire the tree and we can't do anything constructive about it. Like here, looks like his arms are folded and is challenging me to, "do something about it, Buster..."


But that's life, nothing's perfect. Unless you start with a small tree and do something about it immediately.

As to twisting, some twisting may or may not occur due to facing the sun, but some does for sure because a portion of the meristematic tissue, often just one single vein, is a chimera that has a slower or faster grow rate. Contorted trees are a good example. Vines that climb without tendrils obviously are just pulled around by the new growth, as @canoeguide speaks to, below. I don't know anything about "swelling" due to orientation.

I have no idea about trunk swelling due to orientation (and personally don't believe that is true.) All the research that I've done indicates that branches swell the trunk growth around them - "pulling" the trunk outward. This branch pulling effect is so strong that it absolutely must be managed in BRT for bonsai, as reverse taper from some visual angles is almost impossible to avoid. Sacrifice branches can be used very effectively to widen the base if they are within an inch of the soil line.

 

[canoeguide]

Like here, looks like his arms are folded and is challenging me to, "do something about it, Buster..."

I've not done it, and it would take courage, but I've heard that BRTs are some of the easiest trees to air layer. With those folded arms for the roots to grow out over, there could be a new base for this tree.