The most disappointing species...

[penumbra]

but still want to try Satsukis again

You definitely should!

I jumped into Satsuki this year, about 40 plants. I researched there needs beyond what I understand as a nurseryman of about 50 years and they all seem to be doing well. I had an earlier post about the bed I built to winter them in and I am now building a small hoop house over the bed.
Still learning but happy to share my experiences and results with you.

 

[Dav4]

I got into satsukis at the point when I was preparing my collection for moving from Massachusetts to Georgia. It seemed like a good idea because satsukis supposedly prefer the warmer and more humid climbs of North Georgia. After watching all seven of my imported satsukis eventually begin to slowly decline and die, including one with a base as thick as my thigh, I am done!

 

[A. Gorilla]

I got into satsukis at the point when I was preparing my collection for moving from Massachusetts to Georgia. It seemed like a good idea because satsukis supposedly prefer the warmer and more humid climbs of North Georgia. After watching all seven of my imported satsukis eventually begin to slowly decline and die, including one with a base as thick as my thigh, I am done!

I take personal offense when I hear about irrational plant non-compliance. I am not even joking.

 

[penumbra]

I got into satsukis at the point when I was preparing my collection for moving from Massachusetts to Georgia. It seemed like a good idea because satsukis supposedly prefer the warmer and more humid climbs of North Georgia. After watching all seven of my imported satsukis eventually begin to slowly decline and die, including one with a base as thick as my thigh, I am done!

I'm just saying,
there is no way I would buy an imported satsuki until I had them a bit more under my belt. To me that is courting disaster. I had a few from last year that came thru well for me, so a bought several more this year, all from domestic growers. They have all done well and with the winter preparations I am making, I expect 40 for 40.
Just to get my feet wet I took 8 cuttings from one of them and 6 rooted and are doing very well. I think the 2 that didn't were just too tiny.
This is not the first time I have heard about imported satsuki not making it. It may be more common than you think.

 

[Forsoothe!]

I think Acacia can be challenging for we gardeners that have to winter inside. My sweet acacia looked good last year but had a lot of dieback this year. I have several I have been growing from seed and I am hoping this makes a difference. If they winter ok I will send you a couple in the spring.

Acacia take forever to grow up north and they make a statement in the greenhouse. When they are first brought inside they express their displeasure by dropping a billion leaflets. They re-grow and re-drop several times through winter and look pretty straggly, being very twiggy and not liking tipping. This one was a 6 foot tall nursery tree in 2001 in FL.

I love bi-pinnate leaves and have tried them all. I collected seeds in ~2006 in FL and these are (I think) Wild Tamarind - Leucaena leucocephala. They do better but they have long petioles and internodes and need to be constantly headed back.

I bought some Chilean Mesquite seeds in 2010 and they are better subjects in that they winter over well. Here they are last year just after repotting. The red dots are where they have been chopped this year. They look good, but no picture right now.

I have had a Honey Locust in process for a long time from a sapling in my yard, probably 15 years. It's been chopped and now wiring it to be weeping.

 

[Dav4]

I'm just saying,
there is no way I would buy an imported satsuki until I had them a bit more under my belt. To me that is courting disaster. I had a few from last year that came thru well for me, so a bought several more this year, all from domestic growers. They have all done well and with the winter preparations I am making, I expect 40 for 40.
Just to get my feet wet I took 8 cuttings from one of them and 6 rooted and are doing very well. I think the 2 that didn't were just too tiny.
This is not the first time I have heard about imported satsuki not making it. It may be more common than you think.

So, I did my research for months before pulling the trigger. I spoke to more then a few people, pros included, that had been keeping satsukis for decades. Even as the trees began to decline, I had access to very experienced hobbyists and professionals… didn’t matter though. Water quality, soil mix, sun exposure, winter protection… I had it pretty dialed in but the trees declined and died from the bottom up, one after another. The last one went belly up after about nine years of ownership, taking about 2.5 years to go from show ready to dead.

 

[penumbra]

So, I did my research for months before pulling the trigger. I spoke to more then a few people, pros included, that had been keeping satsukis for decades. Even as the trees began to decline, I had access to very experienced hobbyists and professionals… didn’t matter though. Water quality, soil mix, sun exposure, winter protection… I had it pretty dialed in but the trees declined and died from the bottom up, one after another. The last one went belly up after about nine years of ownership, taking about 2.5 years to go from show ready to dead.

I appreciate that and sympathize with your bad experience. I am sure it made sense at the time and I wish you had experienced even a modicum of success.
I just personally would not be pulling the trigger on seven imported plants, particularly since I have heard of others having problems. There is a possibility that I may buy an import some day if I come into that kind of money, but not until I have success with domestic grown plants.

 

[rockm]

I got into satsukis at the point when I was preparing my collection for moving from Massachusetts to Georgia. It seemed like a good idea because satsukis supposedly prefer the warmer and more humid climbs of North Georgia. After watching all seven of my imported satsukis eventually begin to slowly decline and die, including one with a base as thick as my thigh, I am done!

From what I have heard from some who help look after a big extensive collection of satsukis, there are varieties that are suited to colder climates and varieties that are suited to warmer ones. The collector who owns a couple dozen huge imported satsukis bonsai (one of them is almost as big around as I am and four feet tall) travels to Japan every year to work with a satsuki master there. The collector had been buying impressive satsuki bonsai and importing to the U.S. After they got through their quarantine and had been living in his backyard for a few years, his initial imports began to die. It happened repeatedly over several years.

the collector mentioned those deaths to his satsuki guy in Japan. He also mentioned his home location gets a relatively decent winter--something he'd never really talked about before (since the bonsai grower didn't speak much English). The grower basically said "why didn't you tell me that?. The satsukis you're buying are warm weather varieties." Also the grower assumed the area where the collector was living had the equivalent climate of Tokyo (It doesn't) The Japanese know about as much about the climate in the U.S. as we in the U.S. know about Japan. The collector switched to different colder-hardy cultivars and he's been going strong ever since...

 

[leatherback]

I excell at killing pines. Although over the last 2 years or so I seem to be doing better. Now I have 7 pines, and space for 3

 

[Dav4]

From what I have heard from some who help look after a big extensive collection of satsukis, there are varieties that are suited to colder climates and varieties that are suited to warmer ones. The collector who owns a couple dozen huge imported satsukis bonsai (one of them is almost as big around as I am and four feet tall) travels to Japan every year to work with a satsuki master there. The collector had been buying impressive satsuki bonsai and importing to the U.S. After they got through their quarantine and had been living in his backyard for a few years, his initial imports began to die. It happened repeatedly over several years.

the collector mentioned those deaths to his satsuki guy in Japan. He also mentioned his home location gets a relatively decent winter--something he'd never really talked about before (since the bonsai grower didn't speak much English). The grower basically said "why didn't you tell me that?. The satsukis you're buying are warm weather varieties." Also the grower assumed the area where the collector was living had the equivalent climate of Tokyo (It doesn't) The Japanese know about as much about the climate in the U.S. as we in the U.S. know about Japan. The collector switched to different colder-hardy cultivars and he's been going strong ever since...

These were cultivars considered cold hardy and suitable to zone 7b ga with typical winter protection. Maybe it was the cold, weakening them and allowing fungal elements to set in… I’ll never know but am ok with that as it doesn’t matter now.

 

[vbakatare]

You definitely should! I lost a couple early on, but bought one last fall. It made it through the winter here and bloomed like crazy. I bought quite a few this spring and they survived being repotted and are setting buds. Try, try again.

Definitely want to. I made the mistake of putting them in "azalea potting mix" so next time will will be pure kanuma

 

[penumbra]

Definitely want to. I made the mistake of putting them in "azalea potting mix" so next time will will be pure kanuma

I took a dozen satsuki, 2 each of 6 varieties and potted 6 in a standard azalea mix and 6 in pure kanuma. I did this about 3 months ago. They are all in the same kind of pots, in the same bed, healed in pine bark mulch. They are all doing well but thus far I have seen no difference in their growth or appearance. If there is going to be a significant difference I should be seeing it next summer. Time will tell.

 

[rockm]

These were cultivars considered cold hardy and suitable to zone 7b ga with typical winter protection. Maybe it was the cold, weakening them and allowing fungal elements to set in… I’ll never know but am ok with that as it doesn’t matter now.

I'd think its probably the hot nighttime temps in Ga.

Nighttime cooling in the summer is an important piece of the puzzle for some species. For instance I can't grow larch here in a pot in N. Va. I've had several over the years. They do fine for the first two or even three years, but then they have all declined (dead needles, new growth sparse, branch death) in the year or so after those initial years. They grow well only 40 miles north of me in Maryland.

I thought it was the warm winters that were killing them off, but its not. It was the nighttime summer high temps. I get entire weeks in July and August when it may not get below 75 or even 90 at night some years. I'm in a microclimate that stays relatively hotter in the summer than surrounding areas, only a couple of degrees usually, but it makes a difference...That kind of sustained heat can damage root systems on more sensitive borderline trees. My Texas species have no issues at all with direct sun all summer.

 

[penumbra]

They do fine for the first two or even three years, but then they have all declined (dead needles, new growth sparse, branch death) in the year or so after those initial years. They grow well only 40 miles north of me in Maryland.

Mine seem to be doing well in the Valley just 50 miles west of you but it is their 3rd year now. Here's to hoping.

 

[rockm]

Mine seem to be doing well in the Valley just 50 miles west of you but it is their 3rd year now. Here's to hoping.

You're in the Blue Ridge, not as hot as D.C. on average--we also have a "heat island" effect here in No. Va. with all the concrete and asphalt.

 

[penumbra]

You're in the Blue Ridge, not as hot as D.C. on average--we also have a "heat island" effect here in No. Va. with all the concrete and asphalt.

Sure am glad I don't have to live down there anymore. I paid my dues. Heat islands can be large or small. It is always a few degrees warmer in Front Royal than it is in the countryside.
At nighttime here the cooler air rolls down the mountains. We have a few nights in the 70s but not that many. We consider a nighttime low of 65 to 67 as very warm.

 

[Esolin]

Today I came home from with yet another cotoneaster from a club workshop (I'd signed up for it before recently swearing off cotoneasters). And apparently these little workshop trees were cuttings started by Harry Hirao, so like no pressure to keep this one alive and make something of it. I swear these things are gonna be the death of me.