The 2010 BonsaiNut Maple Project

[james]

Brian,

I have admired your work on this site, documentation and willingness to share you progressions.

In leaf (and from the front), this tree looks awesome. Out of leaf two major concerns strike me, which will continue be problematic to finishing off this tree. First, reverse taper at 1/3 the way up the tree. Second, the degree of forward lean.

I have had these problems with trident of my own, and have worked with Boon to address both. I can follow with some pictures and progress of my own to show you how I swallowed hard and corrected these problems. It may seem drastic, however, I am convinced I have made better trees once I recognized these challenges, and am happier for it. You have worked very hard and been patient with your trunk, root base etc and your tree may benefit from a lighter apex.

 

[dbonsaiw]

An apropos fortune cookie

 

[dbonsaiw]

Let's try this again

 

[james]

Here is a trident in progress, neither as nice nor as far along as yours. First image showing my attempt to let stovepipe run to thicken base, worked so-so. Lost taper in mid trunk. Major cut back seen in second image, below reverse taper. Third image one year after cut back, not much progress, however able to grow small shoot/branch in direction of future trunk top. Also did root work. Last image, two years after original cut back, apex now thick enough to cut back again which I will do in a couple of months. Lesson I learned with this tree: build trunk/nebari first. Don’t worry too much about branches until majority of trunk finished. Should many branches be allowed to run in small length of trunk or leader, this may result in reverse taper. Reverse taper hard to fix, should it bother your eye. Should one want to fix, solution is to chop or airlayer where taper stops and rebuild apex.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Definitely food for thought @james thanks. Your trident has developed nicely.
Several of my trees could benefit from a few years back in wooden boxes.

 

[james]

Brian, another issue I have had on several of my own maple and trident is forward lean. I little bit, ok. Yet, multiple chops on the back of tree and a couple of years later your apex approaches horizontal! The common practice is to hide the chops (at the back). However, should one chop at the side, the taper and movement can be exaggerated. At first, the big gaping chop as seen from the front looks horrible. In time it softens and you can achieve side to side and front to back movement (if desired).

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Brian, another issue I have had on several of my own maple and trident is forward lean. I little bit, ok. Yet, multiple chops on the back of tree and a couple of years later your apex approaches horizontal! The common practice is to hide the chops (at the back). However, should one chop at the side, the taper and movement can be exaggerated. At first, the big gaping chop as seen from the front looks horrible. In time it softens and you can achieve side to side and front to back movement (if desired).

So, this…?

 

[shimbrypaku]

You cut on that line and it will make a grown man cry, just my opinion

 

[james]

That may a bit low, but the general idea. Still some taper between your proposed line and the bulge segment, so a bit higher? Hard for me to get my head around the bulge/forward lean section despite watching the 360 spin several times. At this point, I might ask do you want to air layer top off? Or just take top off? Lastly, is there a small branch which could be your intended leader, or take it off and wait for something to pop?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

That may a bit low, but the general idea. Still some taper between your proposed line and the bulge segment, so a bit higher? Hard for me to get my head around the bulge/forward lean section despite watching the 360 spin several times. At this point, I might ask do you want to air layer top off? Or just take top off? Lastly, is there a small branch which could be your intended leader, or take it off and wait for something to pop?

I have said for a long time that as easy as tridents are to grow here, I didn’t want one unless it was a really good one, and so far I’m not completely satisfied with it.

I’ve been thinking a little differently though. It may be that the answer is bigger, not smaller…

 

[Katie0317]

Should be required reading for every new shohin trident owner or grower.
Well done and thank you.

 

[skjohnson37]

This is a fantastic thread. I've just put two trident babies into grow pots and have printed this thread to keep on hand as I need it.

Your work is fantastic, Brian, but it's your willingness to train us new folks that I find exceptional. The photos you photoshop, the explanations you provide, et al. are all invaluable.

Thank you, truly.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Had some questions on post #23 - the big chop. I've learned the hard way that cutting trees down like this doesn't always end well and to better ensure a good result one is encouraged to chop down to existing branches to prevent unwanted die back. Specifically, I chopped down a JM in a similar manner to post #23 and the trunk died back on one side down to the base. I'm now considering a similar chop for a trident next season and, well, once bitten twice shy. Are tridents just more forgiving in this manner allowing me to chop to an existing branch, but no opposing branch?

When I started bonsai I intended to let some trees just grow wild and perform more drastic chops to lower the tree, but am finding that is almost hit or miss.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Are tridents just more forgiving in this manner allowing me to chop to an existing branch, but no opposing branch?

When I started bonsai I intended to let some trees just grow wild and perform more drastic chops to lower the tree, but am finding that is almost hit or miss.

In my experience, tridents grow stronger above ground, and Japanese maples grow stronger below ground. The chop you referenced was made after the tree had been growing in the ground unchecked for several years, so I was reasonably confident it would respond well with strong growth. Maples have an opposite leaf pattern, so while mine only had one branch on one side, it had a dormant bud somewhere in the node opposite the single branch.

I have also shifted my thinking about when to chop, and wouldn’t do it in February now, but rather in the growing season.

 

[leatherback]

have also shifted my thinking about when to chop, and wouldn’t do it in February now, but rather in the growing season

This, I feel, is the key to reducing dieback. Do not do big chops in winter!

 

[Maiden69]

I have also shifted my thinking about when to chop, and wouldn’t do it in February now, but rather in the growing season.

Brian, how late into the growing season would you do the chop? I guess after post-flush? If so, how would you gauge the timing? I have a Chinese pistache that I was going to chop late February, but thought about it because it has some decent branches now below the chop area that could be used in the design. My logic was that chopping on February will put too much strength on those branches and they would become too coarse, and post-flush the push should be less dramatic hopefully bettering my chances of usable new growth.

 

[BobbyLane]

Ive not owned many maples, but from being on this forum, I always thought mid summer was standard stuff for hard/heavy chops. Around mid June to July. I did do one in Aug that began to form callus. Any other species, barring Birch ill chop all year around.