TBS Thread - Fun with Nothofagus Seedlings

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Fantastic contribution, thanks Charles. Please post more as things develop. I agree these species throw leaves so robustly that it can be perplexing to know what to keep and what to let grow. I have a couple of seedlings that seem quite slow to elongate but they have so many tiny leaves on the branches it can be hard to even see the bark. I partially defoliate them just to avoid leaves being completely blocked from light by leaves growing on top of them.
And apropos to your species discussion, look what arrived in my mail box today :
View attachment 296892

Hi,
Great news you could import these . You should find these germinate quite easily if the seed is fresh.
Not trying to burst your bubble but I think you may have trouble reducing the leaves on the fuscaspora fusca. The silver beech is a great choice and if you can find F. solandri or cliffordoides you will they are great also.
Yes I will definitely keep an eye on this thread and try to post some developments of my trees.
Charles

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I looked at the website for New Zealand Seeds, and indeed, they will export to USA and they take all major credit cards and Paypal. They have a number of interestings tree species, not just the Nothofagus. I may order this year, if I get caught up with the other seed in my refrigerator. I got a lot of seed "just chilling".

New Zealand Tree Seeds

We are a international supplier of New Zealand Native & Exotic Tree & Shrub seed, NZ Native Ornamental Grasses, Tussocks & Smaller Plant seeds

nzseeds.co.nz

 

[AnthonyB]

Hi,
Great news you could import these . You should find these germinate quite easily if the seed is fresh.
Not trying to burst your bubble but I think you may have trouble reducing the leaves on the fuscaspora fusca. The silver beech is a great choice and if you can find F. solandri or cliffordoides you will they are great also.
Yes I will definitely keep an eye on this thread and try to post some developments of my trees.
Charles

Thanks for the heads’ up, I’ve heard they are both just beautiful trees so I’m going to try and grow them and just see how they do in my climate. I will check out the other two species.

I have my fingers crossed on N. gunnii at the moment. Apparently not so easy to germinate and also hard to find as seed but I’ve got some planted. I’m told I may have to wait months to know if it was successful. Going to retry with some gibberellic acid treatment the next time i mix up a batch to see if that improves success. I was doing a little hunting around and found this pic on Google that i thought was just stunning (photo credit - Arwen Dyer).

 

[AnthonyB]

I looked at the website for New Zealand Seeds, and indeed, they will export to USA and they take all major credit cards and Paypal. They have a number of interestings tree species, not just the Nothofagus. I may order this year, if I get caught up with the other seed in my refrigerator. I got a lot of seed "just chilling".

New Zealand Tree Seeds

We are a international supplier of New Zealand Native & Exotic Tree & Shrub seed, NZ Native Ornamental Grasses, Tussocks & Smaller Plant seeds

nzseeds.co.nz

I would highly recommend them Leo. Had nothing but great communication, prompt replies and shipping from them. The package takes a while to clear customs but the transaction was super smooth and I’m pretty sure I got more than the 100 seeds of each I ordered.

 

[AnthonyB]

Update on propagation of these trees. I had not come across any literature suggesting they can be grown from cuttings so bout 2 months ago I struck some N antarctica cuttings (into a 1:1:1:1 mix of miracle gro seedling/rooting soil: miracle grow African violet soil: Bonsai Jack organic conifer mix pH 5.8: vermiculite). Dipped cuttings in MG FastRoot powder). I think I had 21 to start.


About a month and a half in it was not looking promising. Most had died, a few looked like they were still potentially viable.




but now 2 weeks after that the ones that looked like they might live seem to be quite vigorous. Pushing out new growth tips and leaves (also I added some new cuttings to one of the pots today)

Fingers crossed. Haven’t had the courage to pull them out and inspect for roots yet but probably will in a month or two. This is my first try growing anything from a cutting so if anyone has advice about timing for transplanting I’m all ears.

 

[Loup97]

How are doing your New Zealand seedlings and the rest ?

 

[AnthonyB]

After about 3 months of waiting on germination, I had to give up on my N gunnii and cunninghamii seeds bc my alpina, obliqua and antarctica seedlings we’re taking over the tray and needed to be repotted. Their roots were so extensive that it disrupted the soil where the other seeds had been planted when I removed them for transplant. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t going to have any success though and am planning to retry and go thru scarification/stratification of those again. Actually I reached out to the supplier to see if they managed to collect any fresh seed this fall in Tasmania but haven’t heard back as yet.

The other trees are doing fairly well. I lost some seeslinga I had planted in jiffy cubes as the roots were growing through and they weakened to the point they didn’t survive transplanting. Still, they can be resilient and I might be able to salvage some of those like this one:


Overall I’m pleased with how things are going, this pic shows all the ones I have going so far, the ones in the training pots are all a year old at this point. I recently pruned back hard and took about 50 cuttings to try and propagate as I have had a few grow extremely robustly from cuttings this spring.


I’ve learned you have to stay on top of them, pruning-wise, else they just grow leggy and then drop the leaves closest to the trunk. They back bud quite readily in response to pruning so I’m hoping use clip and grow on them to create interestingly shaped trees.
These two pics give you a more extreme example of their growth tendency and response to pruning, this is the same about a month after pruning back a few branches:


These two are ones that had desiccated accidentally but revived with pruning back and being grown under a cloche for a couple weeks. The one of the left I’ve posted before but I pruned it back down to 2-3 leaves per branch to develop ramification. The density of the leaves can be pretty crazy on these trees ...


The other lesson is that they tend to lead drop after root manipulation but generally recover so just be patient if/when that happens.
I’m experimenting with trying to supplement them with mycorrhizae from local soil samples I’ve collected. I’ll post more on that if anyone is interested. It seems to have helped them.

 

[Ohmy222]

I have a Nothofagus Antarctica here in Georgia and haven’t had any issues. Trunk is maybe an inch. Grows like an elm and just chopped it back. Got it year before last at a bonsai nursery. Super cheap and I’m a sucker for weird stuff. Keep mine in Akadama, pumice, and lava mix in a grow pot.

 

[AnthonyB]

I have a Nothofagus Antarctica here in Georgia and haven’t had any issues. Trunk is maybe an inch. Grows like an elm and just chopped it back. Got it year before last at a bonsai nursery. Super cheap and I’m a sucker for weird stuff. Keep mine in Akadama, pumice, and lava mix in a grow pot.

How’s it looking? Post a pic of you can.

 

[Ohmy222]

How’s it looking? Post a pic of you can.

Below. I just cut it back hard so I don’t have a pre-cut photo.

 

[AnthonyB]

Below. I just cut it back hard so I don’t have a pre-cut photo.

Those leaves are a different shape than I would expect for N antarctica. I wonder if it is maybe obliqua/procera?

 

[Ohmy222]

It was definitely labeled Antarctica. The leaves are actually pretty small. The big ones you see are just because I cut it back severely.

 

[AnthonyB]

It was definitely labeled Antarctica. The leaves are actually pretty small. The big ones you see are just because I cut it back severely.

I did see the label and don’t doubt that’s what they thought it is. It wasn’t so much the size of the leaves but their shape. If you look up the #nothofagusantarctica on Instagram you will see lots of pics of their leaves (can also get an idea from my pics in this thread). They have a more crinkled appearance with points on the edge. Obliqua the leaves are more flat and are scalloped around the edges. It is also a South American species, sometimes referred to as ‘Roble’ beech.

 

[0soyoung]

Sorry. I cannot help but to stick my nose into this.

@AnthonyB, is correct.

At least about nothofagus Antarctica leaves, if not everything he's said.

 

[Lifaholic]

View attachment 305330

I can definitely see the appeal in going through the painstaking effort to grow this variety. The leaves are so small and beautifully shaped!
Are you planning to keep them as shohin or will you be growing some into larger trees?

 

[AnthonyB]

I can definitely see the appeal in going through the painstaking effort to grow this variety. The leaves are so small and beautifully shaped!
Are you planning to keep them as shohin or will you be growing some into larger trees?

Well I’m learning as I go. I now realize that I should not have put all my year old seedlings into bonsai soil as this will slow down growth. But I have had some success with generating new trees from cuttings and those I’m keeping in pots with more organic in the soil to try and generate larger trees faster. Definitely want to create trees larger than shohin size.

The other thing I have noticed is that when grown from seed they don’t seem to develop a nice radial root structure, mostly 2-3 dominant roots. Those trees might be better grown as root over rock or exposed root style. The ones from cuttings however seem to have a nice balanced radial root pattern so I’m more hopeful for those as trees with long term potential.

 

[Lifaholic]

Well I’m learning as I go. I now realize that I should not have put all my year old seedlings into bonsai soil as this will slow down growth. But I have had some success with generating new trees from cuttings and those I’m keeping in pots with more organic in the soil to try and generate larger trees faster. Definitely want to create trees larger than shohin size.

The other thing I have noticed is that when grown from seed they don’t seem to develop a nice radial root structure, mostly 2-3 dominant roots. Those trees might be better grown as root over rock or exposed root style. The ones from cuttings however seem to have a nice balanced radial root pattern so I’m more hopeful for those as trees with long term potential.

I think it might also be a species-specific characteristic. You should get rid of your tap root(s) as soon as you can.
Take the roots you have and actually physically set them radially as much as you can. You can use wire and fold it into pins to hold the roots in place.

It will take a little time, but the tree will develop new roots. Every repot, cut off any roots growing down from the shin and keep working on that root placement.
Additionally, if that doesn't work out exactly how to need it to, you can graft roots in the places where the tree needs them. That would also help with establishing a nice base.

In the end, the tree needs time, whichever way you go.

 

[AnthonyB]

I think it might also be a species-specific characteristic. You should get rid of your tap root(s) as soon as you can.
Take the roots you have and actually physically set them radially as much as you can. You can use wire and fold it into pins to hold the roots in place.

It will take a little time, but the tree will develop new roots. Every repot, cut off any roots growing down from the shin and keep working on that root placement.
Additionally, if that doesn't work out exactly how to need it to, you can graft roots in the places where the tree needs them. That would also help with establishing a nice base.

In the end, the tree needs time, whichever way you go.

This has been the plan so far. On the older ones I have cut back roots three times on successive reports since they germinated last year. Have not wired them yet. I don’t have any experience doing root grafts but agree that may be ultimately what I have to do. Will be fun to continue experimenting with them.

 

[AnthonyB]

Interesting story.
Not sure if that link will work, it’s from Apple News to a National Geographic article. Possible you might find it behind a paywall but I was able to read for free on Apple News

The article, while it covers many interesting angles, is ultimately about identifying the world’s southern most tree, which turns out to be a little clump of ~40 year old N betuloides (aka Magellan’s beech). They are planning to monitor the area they are growing in to see if climate change is altering the position of the southernmost front for tree growth.

Pretty cool and I thought I would post here for interest.

I have had one attempt so far at germinating seeds of that species with none successful. May try again with GA3 to see if that yields any success.

 

[Sputnik 184]

Big fan of the smaller leafed Nothofagus for Shohin trees. Fascinated to see you have had such success with your cuttings. What time of year were they taken and were they given any bottom heat or other special treatment. Keen to have a go.