Summer Candle-Pruning for 2-needle pines

[Alex DeRuiter]

So it seems that needle pruning is normally only done on trees that are in advanced stages of training, is that correct?

If that is the case, what should one do to keep new growth close to the trunk on material in early stages of development? I have some Japanese black pine seedlings that show buds towards the base, but over the next fives years I'm not exactly sure what I should do to keep growth close to the trunk (which letting sacrifices grow as long as I need them, of course). Are there any articles that discuss this? Does Stone Lanter's pine book cover this subject?

 

[tmmason10]

So it seems that needle pruning is normally only done on trees that are in advanced stages of training, is that correct?

If that is the case, what should one do to keep new growth close to the trunk on material in early stages of development? I have some Japanese black pine seedlings that show buds towards the base, but over the next fives years I'm not exactly sure what I should do to keep growth close to the trunk (which letting sacrifices grow as long as I need them, of course). Are there any articles that discuss this? Does Stone Lanter's pine book cover this subject?

This is a great question, I've been wondering the same myself.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

This is done by identifying and labeling sacrifice branch and final branches. Protect the buds close to the trunk, strip off needles from sacrifice branches so they dont shade out the final branches and buds. Sometimes, you just get lucky and new buds pop. Other times, it is necessary to cut back to the most proximal shoot and hope for back budding. And...grafting is a key part of growing pines. A few articles from Brent's website:

http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pines.htm
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/pines2.htm

This technique of sacrifice branches is also one I'm currently writing and photographing for a new presentation...not ready yet, but I may be able to find some photos tomorrow of some of the process.

Also, since the techniques are specific and easily confused, let's clarify terminology: needle pruning is not what we are talking about here...this is candle pruning. The technique of needle-pulling is employed too, but is different from candle cutting. More on that another time.

 

[Alex DeRuiter]

Yep, sorry: candle pruning*. lol -- I had a brain-fart

Okay, that makes sense. I'd read Brent's stuff before, but I wasn't sure if there were any more advanced techniques for making sure new growth pops out at ideal locations. Luck seems to be a huge factor with pines.

Looking forward to the article. Thanks again for your help

 

[YukiShiro]

Is there anything to the timing of decandling, in terms of later or earlier? I've read a lot of books that stated three stages of candle developement
1st is when the new needles are just small stubs
2nd is when the new needles are showing but have not yet moved away from the candle
3rd is when the new needles are standing away from the candle

, saying the later you wait to decandle the more the tree will backbud further back on the branches and less buds where you took off the candle. Is this true?

 

[Adair M]

Not exactly.

Summer decandling stimulates the dormant "adventitious" buds that lie at the base of the candle. These buds are suppressed from growing by auxins (hormones) produced by the primary candle. When we decandle, the source of the auxins are removed, thus allowing the dormant adventitious buds to develop.

You may stimulate some older (one, two, or three years) dormant buds to pop on old wood as well, but that's a bonus if it happens. You can't count on that happening.

I have found that proper fall cleanup with needle pulling and bud thinning stimulates old dormant buds to back bud over the winter. Bud thinning is selecting those branches that had 3 or more adventitious buds develop from the summer decandling, and reducing those back to two on each twig. Pulling excess needles balances the energy and opens up the interior of the tree to sunlight which stimulates the dormant buds on old wood.

This year, for example, I got a lot of back budding in the spring. I decandled early in July, and have gotten new adventitious candles, but little additional back budding. I did NOT decandle the new back buds that popped in the spring. I doubt I will next summer either unless they are very strong. Even then, I suspect the most I would do is pinch back.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Agreed. You might be referring to breaking off the candles as they emerge in the springtime (you're in Australia IIRC). If this is the case, new candles are broken off so they're all approximate the same length as they emerge in springtime. This is done before the tips of the needles emerge from the silvery sheaths. Timed right, they're very easy to snap off at the right length. With pines, it all about creating balance; candle pinching in the spring, candle pruning in the summer, and needle reduction in the fall/winter.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

While we're at it...here is a quick update of the pines after another 3 weeks.
Red Pine...or more accurately, dead pine. This was one of my favorite trees, so I'll be taking a moment.......ok. Here it is after succumbing to a year-long battle with root-rot:


Chuhin black pine, finally starting to move. I broke down and started hitting everything with some Miracle Grow in addition to my organic regimen; first time in 4 years!


And the newest JBP project...some more shoot-grafting is definitely in this one's future:

 

[Dav4]

Too bad about the JRP...awesome trunk on that one. I lost 2 collected lodgepole pines with great trunks, too...one last summer and the other the summer before. Watching the needles slowly turn from light green to yellow to brown is just plain crappy to endure. And by the way, if it can happen to someone with your experience, skill, and enthusiasm, it can happen to any of us. No regrets and full speed ahead!

 

[YukiShiro]

Much thanks for the info Brian!

Its a real honor to have someone of your caliber giving tips

Sorry to hear about that red pine our trees become like family members and its really sad to see one go...

I'm from south africa Brian, but I guess same would apply for here as for australia. Both have very hot dry weather.

Atleast now I have a plan of action

Spring candle pinching, summer decandling and then fall needle plucking and bud selection. Does this sound about right? I wouldve posted a few pics of my two black pines in training, BUT I'm way to carefull of the wrath of the big guys on this forum lol...maybe later...

 

[YukiShiro]

You guys are going to have to be very patient with me! I'm going to ask a lot of questions, I need to learn as much as I can about training jbp, and you guys are the only people I have access to that can teach me the how and when and why. There are NO jbp experts in a radius of 200km. Most bonsai experts in ZA aren't interested in pines or don't have a clue on how to balance energy or do ramification.

 

[bonhe]

Do you treat Yatsubusa black pine as same as regular black pine? Thanks
Bonhe

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Do you treat Yatsubusa black pine as same as regular black pine? Thanks
Bonhe

I think Yatsabusa has a couple of rough translations; one is dwarf, and the other is multi-budded...so yes. In the latter, reducing buds down to a pair becomes even more important.

 

[bonhe]

I think Yatsabusa has a couple of rough translations; one is dwarf, and the other is multi-budded...so yes. In the latter, reducing buds down to a pair becomes even more important.

Thanks Brian.
One more question: How about cork black pine? Do we perform candle pruning every year? when we do candle pruning, it will be same as regular black pine, won't it?
Tuan

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

The process is the same, but it should be done earlier in the summer, and it shouldn't be done annually. I have found that the vigorous cultivars respond fairly well, and the slower ones don't.

Also, just by their slower growth rate, it seems that not much is gained by candle pruning corkers, but treating them more like white pines produces better results. That is, needle thinning and bud selection in the fall, and pruning back to interior shoots to replace longer ones.

Here is an entry I did this spring about candle cutting corkers over the last few years, and is actually an excerpt of a much longer presentation I've been writing over the last few years:
http://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/corkbark-black-pine-meanderings/

 

[bonhe]

The process is the same, but it should be done earlier in the summer, and it shouldn't be done annually. I have found that the vigorous cultivars respond fairly well, and the slower ones don't.

Also, just by their slower growth rate, it seems that not much is gained by candle pruning corkers, but treating them more like white pines produces better results. That is, needle thinning and bud selection in the fall, and pruning back to interior shoots to replace longer ones.

Here is an entry I did this spring about candle cutting corkers over the last few years, and is actually an excerpt of a much longer presentation I've been writing over the last few years:
http://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/corkbark-black-pine-meanderings/

Thanks Brian. Your information is really helpful.
Bonhe

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

To put a bow on this thread, here are the two trees at the end of the growing season.

The smaller pine will be thinned out later this winter and the bigger pine is "done" for the year. Pretty sure it can still be repotted as planned next spring.

cmeg, consider creating a new thread by moving the posts and that way you can update the progression on a clean thread. No doubt people will want to see its development.