Styling advice for 40 year old juniper?
- Thread starter WillRandall
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WillRandall
Seedling
Styling advice for 40 year old juniper?
Hi I am new to this web site, but looking to get some thoughts from the community on which direction to take these 2 trees. I have debating for about a year to either: · Drastic reduction and restyle or · Wait and develop further in the current style.Attachments
ponderingsage
Mame
Nice trees!
My two cents is I like the cascade as long and flowing. From the angle of the photo it looks like the Apex branch is pretty straight so perhaps that needs a little movement.
I really like the slanting tree as well, but would recommend you narrow the silhouette to bring it back in scale.
Welcome to bnut!
My two cents is I like the cascade as long and flowing. From the angle of the photo it looks like the Apex branch is pretty straight so perhaps that needs a little movement.
I really like the slanting tree as well, but would recommend you narrow the silhouette to bring it back in scale.
Welcome to bnut!
RoadManDenDron
Chumono
The cascade I would be tempted to lose the top straight branch all together actually and use the branch beneath it as a nice round apex
Also a cascade in nature does not grow down, it is pushed down by a force of nature and then reaches for the sun again, so the end should lift up again towards the light.
The only exception is if there is significant deadwood up top to show a recent force of nature killing the apex and pulling the branch down.
Also a cascade in nature does not grow down, it is pushed down by a force of nature and then reaches for the sun again, so the end should lift up again towards the light.
The only exception is if there is significant deadwood up top to show a recent force of nature killing the apex and pulling the branch down.
WillRandall
Seedling
Thanks Both, really helpful. For the cascade I agree it's that top branch that's the issue.
I think the safest maybe to try and heavily bend this top branch to see if I can make any use of it, then if that still doesn't help I still have the option to make jin of it or remove it entirely so the eye focus on the main truck. Thank this helps my thought process. The dead wood apex might imply the original apex top dieing back and the cascade taking over. great idea.
For the slanting tree, I think just letting this grow out, prune and back bud will help condense the foliage, then see if anything needs removing after it has fill out more and gained strength.
They were my grandad's trees, and were not worked for about 20 years. They were re potted 2 years ago from large plastic pots, so are only just now starting to gain stehgnth and fill out. Should be good trees in a few years.
I think the safest maybe to try and heavily bend this top branch to see if I can make any use of it, then if that still doesn't help I still have the option to make jin of it or remove it entirely so the eye focus on the main truck. Thank this helps my thought process. The dead wood apex might imply the original apex top dieing back and the cascade taking over. great idea.
For the slanting tree, I think just letting this grow out, prune and back bud will help condense the foliage, then see if anything needs removing after it has fill out more and gained strength.
They were my grandad's trees, and were not worked for about 20 years. They were re potted 2 years ago from large plastic pots, so are only just now starting to gain stehgnth and fill out. Should be good trees in a few years.
Shibui
Imperial Masterpiece
Agree that the straight, upright branch fights against the cascade.
My 2c is it will be very difficult to bend and even if it can be bent, where will it go? Already plenty of branches on that trunk. I'd go straight to a short jin and develop the branch as the apex. Note that cascade apex does not have to grow up, nor does it need to be higher than the trunk. Many look much better where the trunk base is the highest point of the tree.
Initially I thought the other tree has apex and first branch in opposition. Both strong but 1 up and 1 down.
Looking closer I think both parts are valuable and to good to eliminate.
The right, down part seems to be made from several branches. Maybe time to consider reducing the complexity there by removing 1 or more of those but I can't see enough detail to recommend which would be first to go.
Also hard to follow the main trunk line in the apex. Can't see which is trunk and which are branches as they are hidden behind foliage in that picture.
My 2c is it will be very difficult to bend and even if it can be bent, where will it go? Already plenty of branches on that trunk. I'd go straight to a short jin and develop the branch as the apex. Note that cascade apex does not have to grow up, nor does it need to be higher than the trunk. Many look much better where the trunk base is the highest point of the tree.
Initially I thought the other tree has apex and first branch in opposition. Both strong but 1 up and 1 down.
Looking closer I think both parts are valuable and to good to eliminate.
The right, down part seems to be made from several branches. Maybe time to consider reducing the complexity there by removing 1 or more of those but I can't see enough detail to recommend which would be first to go.
Also hard to follow the main trunk line in the apex. Can't see which is trunk and which are branches as they are hidden behind foliage in that picture.
WillRandall
Seedling
Thats great help thank you, yes maybe focus the energy in making a new apex in the cascade tree, and jin the awkward top branch.
For the slanting tree, Yes have been contemplating removing the very bottom right branch. it catches the eye too much and is too thick. hard to describe in a photo hey.
For the slanting tree, Yes have been contemplating removing the very bottom right branch. it catches the eye too much and is too thick. hard to describe in a photo hey.
WillRandall
Seedling
WillRandall
Seedling
This might be a bit wild but very dramatic. not going here yet. too scared.
bwaynef
Masterpiece
I think the slanting/informal-upright would be greatly improved by removing the bottom branch, and probably the top branch though that will leave you with an apex conundrum to solve. The straight top branch on the cascade needs to go. How much sun do these trees get?
The Barber
Chumono
Here's a couple visualizations of where I'd go with it.
I'd turn the apex more towards the front, as well as bring the bottom of the cascade back up starting around the bottom 1/3. Also start wiring pads as well, it will help light gets to the tree where you want it.
Second tree, I think the planting angle is what bugs me, the apex feels so far away and not bowing the the viewer, might post a couple more photos from other angles. Best I could come up with playing with the ai on my phone. I think it may be better suited in a more upright position though before you do much drastic. Try playing with the angle of the tree and see what you come up with, while it is in the pot and add a photo/s perhaps.
I'd turn the apex more towards the front, as well as bring the bottom of the cascade back up starting around the bottom 1/3. Also start wiring pads as well, it will help light gets to the tree where you want it.
Second tree, I think the planting angle is what bugs me, the apex feels so far away and not bowing the the viewer, might post a couple more photos from other angles. Best I could come up with playing with the ai on my phone. I think it may be better suited in a more upright position though before you do much drastic. Try playing with the angle of the tree and see what you come up with, while it is in the pot and add a photo/s perhaps.
Ruddigger
Omono
The cascade just needs some raffia and wire on that straight apex. Put some movement in it and compress it down. The semi cascade needs the apex brought further to the right, so it’s over the base. Either by bending or pruning, I’d probably just bend it.
River's Edge
Masterpiece
Your instincts are spot on, take the time to get the trees healthy in order to return them to the higher level they have the potential for. The top straight section is easily bent and movement added with the proper technique referred to as channeling. This involves raffia, Copper wire and some preplanning. If you are unsure get some experienced help locally. Both trees can be refined nicely and turn out to a much higher level within five to seven years. Will require grow out and reduction to compact branching and foliage closer in. They have just grown out for a lengthy period. When you begin the cut back process in a couple of years start some cuttings so you can use them for approach grafting if needed.
Drastic restyling would simply force a longer path and step away from your grandfathers legacy. I vote for honouring his intent and taking the trees to a higher level in the styles he intended.
Heavy bending through channeling is often used on Yamadori juniper, older thicker branches that need some of the wood removed to create more flexibility in order to add movement.
Compacted forms of the current designs with refined pads would be outstanding. Both trees have the trunk size to carry the designs!
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Brain Treez
Sapling
To me, Option 1 with those semi-cascading branches removed is a gorgeous tree.
WillRandall
Seedling
thank you, full sun all year. I think the consensus is clear to remove the top branch on the cascade, thank you this gives me some confidence to make the cut.
Sound like simplifying the slanting trees is going to make it clearer and stronger silhouette.
WillRandall
Seedling
These are great, much appreciated. thank you. yes the top branch is now going to go on the cascade seams everyone agrees. For the bottom 3rd of the tree would you bend this back towards the pot and up to balance the flow? is that the idea you were suggesting?
Yes the slanted tree may lean a bit too much to right I agree, with that removed you eye moves more to the centre. I will post a few more photos tomorrow so you can see all angles. It is quite over grown and needs to back bud a lot to get more compact. tricky tree. Opening pandoras box..... the side elevation is quite good also with the strong bend put in about 3 decades ago, will post an image, cheers
bwaynef
Masterpiece
I just read RE's comment above and saw these were your grandfather's trees. Somehow I missed that. With that info and reading back where you mention it, I'd suggest making sure these trees are in prime health before making many big decisions.
WillRandall
Seedling
Thank you, this is worth a try, and if its doesn't work then I still have the option to remove it.
WillRandall
Seedling
Strong advice, definitely why I have been deliberating for a long while. Maybe I should hold out for another growing seasons and make the decision in 2026.
Deep Sea Diver
Imperial Masterpiece
Looks like you started two threads with the same name. Perhaps @Bonsai Nut can combine these as this is very confusing.
Also it is important for us, while trying to help you, to know your approximate location and USDA Plant Cold Hardiness Zone so we can better inform you. To do so, double tap your icon atop the page, select account details,, scroll down, enter these data and save.
There are some good comments on each thread. As someone gifted 20+ heritage trees 7 years ago, first and foremost love the “getting the trees strong and robust” idea. It is the key to doing everything else. This will take about a year or two of good care if you were in our neck of the woods. This one thing will help you get a better picture of the actual health of the trees.
Not sure if anyone mentioned this… it’s likely both trees need repotting. This would be a really good starting point on getting the trees healthy and robust if it is needed. Would get someone knowledgeable to help assist with media and the repotting procedure.
Styling: Personally if you are close to a local club, would be inclined to recommend you join same and take these trees to a workshop once they are healthy and robust. Because these are the perfect trees for a pro to help you get started. Each has good bones and I would not want to muck around without expert on the scene guidance.
Cheers
DSD sends
Also it is important for us, while trying to help you, to know your approximate location and USDA Plant Cold Hardiness Zone so we can better inform you. To do so, double tap your icon atop the page, select account details,, scroll down, enter these data and save.
There are some good comments on each thread. As someone gifted 20+ heritage trees 7 years ago, first and foremost love the “getting the trees strong and robust” idea. It is the key to doing everything else. This will take about a year or two of good care if you were in our neck of the woods. This one thing will help you get a better picture of the actual health of the trees.
Not sure if anyone mentioned this… it’s likely both trees need repotting. This would be a really good starting point on getting the trees healthy and robust if it is needed. Would get someone knowledgeable to help assist with media and the repotting procedure.
Styling: Personally if you are close to a local club, would be inclined to recommend you join same and take these trees to a workshop once they are healthy and robust. Because these are the perfect trees for a pro to help you get started. Each has good bones and I would not want to muck around without expert on the scene guidance.
Cheers
DSD sends
