Storing pots under work bench
- Thread starter Kaleb
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pandacular
Omono
this is nearly universally done in bonsai nurseries I have seen. I also like having my pots near my trees so I can look at them together.
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
I've been to a couple bonsai shows now, and usually when people talk about the pot.. It's about whether or not it's fitting the tree. The patina is mentioned a lot in podcasts.. But people clean their pots and oil them before a show. So I'm not exactly what the deal is with the patina; people want it, they get it, then remove it, then try to get it back.. It all sounds pretty weird to me and I've yet to see the difference it does or doesn't make.
Modern potters can make pots look ancient, and we can buy brand new pots that give off the same vibe. Peter Tea has a blog post about it, which I just read.. And it should look perfect, but not too perfect, and it can be faked, but only when done perfectly, but not too perfectly.
And now I'm wondering if people can be misled if an owner tells them that a pot is 200 years old, while it actually is 2 years old but has a good fake patina. And if a good fake patina is a good patina, then how would it be fake? It's patina. It can't be faked. But then again, it might! When done well, but not too well because it should have flaws. But flaws are also what define fake patina. Sounds like some circular reasoning there.
Then we plant on slabs, moss, logs, metal containers, more modern designed ones, those are all awesome even though they lack patina. So what's the deal? I have no clue. I have terra cotta pots with patina coming close to looking like 4000 year old Egyptian pottery, but they aren't Japanese so they suck. In essence, I just don't get it. So I stopped caring about it.
Personally, I keep my pots stored in a cabinet because birds tend to knock things off of benches. I really don't want expensive pots to break because a plastic one dropped on them from a 6 ft height.
Modern potters can make pots look ancient, and we can buy brand new pots that give off the same vibe. Peter Tea has a blog post about it, which I just read.. And it should look perfect, but not too perfect, and it can be faked, but only when done perfectly, but not too perfectly.
And now I'm wondering if people can be misled if an owner tells them that a pot is 200 years old, while it actually is 2 years old but has a good fake patina. And if a good fake patina is a good patina, then how would it be fake? It's patina. It can't be faked. But then again, it might! When done well, but not too well because it should have flaws. But flaws are also what define fake patina. Sounds like some circular reasoning there.
Then we plant on slabs, moss, logs, metal containers, more modern designed ones, those are all awesome even though they lack patina. So what's the deal? I have no clue. I have terra cotta pots with patina coming close to looking like 4000 year old Egyptian pottery, but they aren't Japanese so they suck. In essence, I just don't get it. So I stopped caring about it.
Personally, I keep my pots stored in a cabinet because birds tend to knock things off of benches. I really don't want expensive pots to break because a plastic one dropped on them from a 6 ft height.
pandacular
Omono
just like trees, the appearance of age is what is valued, not the age itself (well outside of ultra high-end/Kokufu type trees). I agree that patinas are overrated. I think people store their pots where it's convenient for them and for many people that's under their benches. I wouldn't overthink it.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
I store my pots with the tree I want to put them in during the growing season. I move em to the basement or shed in winter.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
You misunderstand what patina on a pot is. It is NOT oil or dirt, really. It is the changes that come with time that change the surface of the glaze of the pot, or surface character. You can't really get rid of it, as it is subsurface.
It also can't really be faked by potters all that well, just like real age on a tree cannot be faked as well with artificial techniques. Fake is fake. It shows, and is noticed once you know what you're looking at.
Some surfaces "take" patina better than others. Nakawatari and Kowatari pots from China have glazes that tend to show patina well. Kowatari is a designation for pots built before 1800 or so, Nakawatari betwen 1800 and 1911 or so and imported from China to Japan.
Matt Ouwinga's site has many of those pots, as well as more modern ones that have developed deep patina.
Patina is built up over years. Oiling a pot doesn't apply patina, it may enhance it, but it isn't "it."
Storing pots under benches does help with building patina a little, as exposure to the elements and dripped fertilizers, etc.
Attachments
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
A link to Matty O's website. A spin through it shows many pots that have patina. Worth looking
Bonsai Pots
Kaede Bonsai-en is proud to offer the United States' largest and best selection of authentic Japanese and Antique Chinese bonsai pots. These are imported from Japan and available in a wide range of artists, sizes, shapes, and glazes. Click here to be redirected to the eBay site. It will open in...
kaedebonsai-en.com
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Ah I see. Well, then I'm making the conscious choice not to care about it at all. I'm not going to achieve any patina in my lifetime on my new pots, so best to ignore it all together.
Maiden69
Masterpiece
Definitely Matt O has a nice selection of used pots. Another seller that also have a few, not as nice is Wigerts. I think they tend to clean them a little to hard and some of it is lost, but at times they will have some that are nice as well.
LuZiKui
Shohin
In my neck of the woods we have pretty hard water that leaves white deposits on things that are exposed to water often. So, I keep mine in the garage in a crate where they are safe. I also have kids playing near my benches so I'd rather have unbroken pots than ones with a little extra patina.
Also, until I have trees that can compliment a 100+ year old pot I'm not too concerned about it. Unless you plan on entering the tree at a national show just do what you think looks best and brings you the most enjoyment!
Also, until I have trees that can compliment a 100+ year old pot I'm not too concerned about it. Unless you plan on entering the tree at a national show just do what you think looks best and brings you the most enjoyment!
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
That's too bad you don't care about it. It's hardly necessary on a pot, but understanding WHY it is valued can be valuable in other areas.
As far as not caring because your pots aren't going to get it in your lifetime is kind of puzzling. Your trees mostly won't reach their full potential either, but you do care about them, right?
And FWIW, getting some patina on a pot is certainly do-able within your lifetime, heck within 30 years. I've got a big imported Chinese pot my mom (God rest her) used for a natal plum bonsai when I was a teenager. It held that plum for 30 years, until it died a few years ago from drying out. In that time, its glaze has picked up a noticeable bit (not a huge amount) of patina from hard water, fertilizer, etc. It's one of my most valued bonsai items.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I've got a bunch of pots stored on inside shelves for display. They've been there for years. I've got others outside in the weather. Doesn't make much difference to me. Pots don't really accumulate much noticeable patina until they're used.
And yes, a pot with patina doesn't go with young bonsai, just as a old bonsai doesn't really "fit" into a new pot all that well. Both are dissonant to overall image. Old patinated pots are meant to go with 100 year old or older established bonsai, to match the weathered appearance and add to their presence. It is definitely part and parcel of the "wabi-sabi" esthetics inherent to bonsai. None of those terms apparently has a direct English translation and deal more with feelings and state of mind. Roughly Wabi means simplicity, impermanence, flaws, and imperfection. Sabi means time and its affect on beauty.
The patina not only mellows brighter glazes, taking the visual edge off them, it also suggests great age and the endurance and poise that (sometimes) comes with great age.
