Spherical Concave or standard concave

[Cadillactaste]

I know that Joshua Roth tools are considered a good brand to go with...so I wish to add a concave cutter. But on their site they mention the spherical concave...and I was curious...how many prefere that over the standard concave they offer?

I was at first considering the #1169 INTERMEDIATE GRADE CONCAVE...but now...am hesitant. Wondering if I need to just bite the bullet and go with the spherical ones.

Standard:
Known in Japan as Mataeda Hasami, these razor sharp tools are designed for cutting branches flush to the trunk. The resulting wound can then heal over quickly with little scarring. The Coincave Cutter is the single most important tool for Bonsai use and for which there is no substitute. The 8 inch versions are consideres the basic size to begin with.



Spherical:
The cutting edges of the Spherical Concave Cutters below are rounded, as compared to the straight blades of Standard Concave Cutters. The results are spherical cuts which are round and hollow and heal with the most aesthetic and least visible wounds.

http://www.joshuaroth.com/5701/13001.html

 

[Poink88]

Between the two I would get the spherical concave cutter...almost having a concave cutter & knob cutter hybrid.

Do note that knob cutter and spherical cutter are much more difficult to sharpen than a regular concave cutter (which is difficult enough by itself).

Good luck with the choice!

 

[Cadillactaste]

Between the two I would get the spherical concave cutter...almost having a concave cutter & knob cutter hybrid.

Do note that knob cutter and spherical cutter are much more difficult to sharpen than a regular concave cutter (which is difficult enough by itself).

Good luck with the choice!

Thanks! That is what i gathered in my thinking...If not I would always know I could have gotten a better cut with a better tool.

I most likely will send it off to be sharpened as my husband does his saw blades. Just drop them with the lumberyard and are called when they get them back in. Not sure where they send them...but an experienced sharpener that's for certain.

I found a pair for $90 for Spherical Concave Cutter - Professional, JR168
Made with high carbon steel for superior cuts and long life.

Dimensions: 13/16 inch blades, 8 inches overall length.

 

[bonsaibp]

I use my tools everyday and hardly ever use a spherical cutter- i use the standard concave cutter all the time.
I would suggest getting a good 8" concave cutter rather then the spherical one.

 

[Gene Deci]

I have both. I must say that with the exception of some bigger branches, there is little or no noticeable difference in the results. So I use the concave ones sparingly because they are harder to sharpen and pretty expensive.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I use my tools everyday and hardly ever use a spherical cutter- i use the standard concave cutter all the time.
I would suggest getting a good 8" concave cutter rather then the spherical one.

Really...hm-mmm guess I'll think on it more...before I pull the trigger then.

Should I stay with Joshua Roth brand? I recall reading an older post suggesting them.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I have both. I must say that with the exception of some bigger branches, there is little or no noticeable difference in the results. So I use the concave ones sparingly because they are harder to sharpen and pretty expensive.

How much bigger/size of branch do you think before noticing a difference?

You use the concave ones sparingly...they are both concave...do you mean the spherical ones you use sparingly?

 

[nathanbs]

im with Dario on this one. I rarely use my regular concave cutters anymore after getting spherical ones. one added note is the spherical ones are much stronger by design whereas the regular concave cutters can bend fairly easily on an oversized cut. We all know better but we do it anyways and with the spherical i've yet to damage them. They are also great to nibble at large cuts/prunes you mad,e to kind of whittle it down to your desired shape

 

[Poink88]

I most likely will send it off to be sharpened as my husband does his saw blades. Just drop them with the lumberyard and are called when they get them back in. Not sure where they send them...but an experienced sharpener that's for certain.

Note that not everyone who can sharpen can do the spherical concave cutter or even the concave cutter. They need to know how it works. It is very different from sharpening knives, saw blades, or even scissors (though a bit closer).

For the record, I also use my concave cutter the most (I own 10 of it now I think ). I also have 2 knob cutters and a spherical concave cutter.

For the money, I think JR brand is very good. You do not need the master or professional series either. Intermediate is good enough (but the more expensive is of course better). For almost the same money, buy one of each of intermediate 8" concave cutter and 8" knob cutter instead.

One thing to note. More expensive ones are sometimes ground thinner to slice better. With it comes the price of being less robust and can break easier if abused or used wrong.

FYI, sometimes you can get good deal at eBay. I've bough several Masakuni cutters there for much less than half the price.

 

[Gene Deci]

How much bigger/size of branch do you think before noticing a difference?

You use the concave ones sparingly...they are both concave...do you mean the spherical ones you use sparingly?

On the branch size, I would say about half an inch.

Oops! Thanks for catching that. I meant to say spherical concave.

 

[nathanbs]

Note that not everyone who can sharpen can do the spherical concave cutter or even the concave cutter. They need to know how it works. It is very different from sharpening knives, saw blades, or even scissors (though a bit closer).

For the record, I also use my concave cutter the most (I own 10 of it now I think ). I also have 2 knob cutters and a spherical concave cutter.

For the money, I think JR brand is very good. You do not need the master or professional series either. Intermediate is good enough (but the more expensive is of course better). For almost the same money, buy one of each of intermediate 8" concave cutter and 8" knob cutter instead.

One thing to note. More expensive ones are sometimes ground thinner to slice better. With it comes the price of being less robust and can break easier if abused or used wrong.

FYI, sometimes you can get good deal at eBay. I've bough several Masakuni cutters there for much less than half the price.

May I ask why you have 10? Are the mis-aligning/bending? That has been my experience on regular concave but im still on my first pair of spherical. I was up to 4 I think in less than 2 years of doing bonsai

 

[GrimLore]

Sears, go to the electrical department, loaded with wire cutters but trees don't read the labels. Coupled with a few tools from Fiskars you should be happy for the first several years before needing to go to specialized cutters... For the amount of use my Wife gets out of the pricey stuff that needs maintenance she is also along these thoughts 18 years into it. Just my opinion based on what we do and what is really needed.

Grimmy

 

[Dav4]

The key to getting a concave ( or spherical ) cutter to last is to know when to use a hand saw. I use my saw on pretty much everything over 1 cm in diameter.

 

[Poink88]

May I ask why you have 10? Are the mis-aligning/bending? That has been my experience on regular concave but im still on my first pair of spherical. I was up to 4 I think in less than 2 years of doing bonsai

I am just a collector by nature...it is my sickness.

None of them are mis-aligned, bent, or damaged. Except the ones I bought damaged (chipped) to begin with and I just do not want to grind it down too much. It will eventually even out after a few years of use (hopefully).

 

[Poink88]

The key to getting a concave ( or spherical ) cutter to last is to know when to use a hand saw. I use my saw on pretty much everything over 1 cm in diameter.

I use my cutters...even up to 3" of logwood, boxwood, etc. If you've worked with logwood, you'll know they are super hard. Having a sharp cutting tool and knowing how to properly use it IMHO is the secret (to any tool really).

I agree that using a saw when needed is smart thing to do.

 

[nathanbs]

I use my cutters...even up to 3" of logwood, boxwood, etc. If you've worked with logwood, you'll know they are super hard. Having a sharp cutting tool and knowing how to properly use it IMHO is the secret (to any tool really).

I agree that using a saw when needed is smart thing to do.

umm enlighten me on how to do this please

 

[Poink88]

umm enlighten me on how to do this please

It is like using an ax to cut down trees...you take smaller cuts until you go through. Sometimes you even have to start another cut above until they meet. I hardly do it to cut through something but I've done so on really tight spaces...like roots of collected trees that were originally grown on pots...where big roots are so entangled, you cannot use a saw or lopper and using a chisel so so "jarring" to the tree.

I usually use them (concave cutter and/or knob cutter) to do "rough carving" on big trunks though...some actually as big as 4"+ across.

 

[JudyB]

Hi Darlene,
You know, I would save your $$ for trees than for any expensive tools at this point. I bought one of those all in one kits on ebay for like $60. and other than some regular tools, like pliers, needle nose pliers and wire cutters (regular electrician cutters) I haven't needed much else. There are even several items in the kit that I've never used. I did buy a pair of good shears, and a better pair of tweezers. Just my opinion, but I have a reciprocating saw to do things larger than I can do with cutters. (and a pair of loppers too...)

I did see your wire question, I would buy all the sizes up to the #4 except no #1, you will need them all as you start to learn how to wire.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bonsai-Tool...062806?pt=US_Garden_Tools&hash=item5656c6e516

 

[Cadillactaste]

Hi Darlene,
You know, I would save your $$ for trees than for any expensive tools at this point. I bought one of those all in one kits on ebay for like $60. and other than some regular tools, like pliers, needle nose pliers and wire cutters (regular electrician cutters) I haven't needed much else. There are even several items in the kit that I've never used. I did buy a pair of good shears, and a better pair of tweezers. Just my opinion, but I have a reciprocating saw to do things larger than I can do with cutters. (and a pair of loppers too...)

I did see your wire question, I would buy all the sizes up to the #4 except no #1, you will need them all as you start to learn how to wire.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bonsai-Tool...062806?pt=US_Garden_Tools&hash=item5656c6e516

You really feel the concave tools in the kit functional? I have heard it best to start with concave "quality" cutters than spend money on the kit and replace it all soon because it doesn't hold up.

I have a new pair of trimmers/pruners I purchased this year. And wire cutters I have as well...figured the main thing would be the concave. In a book I took out of the library...it said to invest in a good pair of concave than purchasing a kit as well. What brand of kit do you have...that you are happy with the quality of cutters it offers?

Dumb question...knuckle cutters...what exactly is a knuckle on a tree?

Judy...I am putting money back to buy a good stock bonsai come spring.

 

[JudyB]

What brand of kit do you have...that you are happy with the quality of cutters it offers?

Dumb question...knuckle cutters...what exactly is a knuckle on a tree?

The linked kit is the one I have, and I am happy with it. Been using them for years.
I believe they are talking knob cutters.
I almost didn't replyntonthis thread, as I know lots of people are tool freaks , I'm just not one of them. I'm happy as long as what I have works.