michaelj
Chumono
This quote is the bonsai forum equivalent of "____ broke the Internet with this post/photo/video"
Some facts about bonsai soil
- Thread starter Smoke
- Start date
This quote is the bonsai forum equivalent of "____ broke the Internet with this post/photo/video"
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
No sir - pumice is pumice. Generally though, subsea volcanoes aren't the right kind to make to much of that though. You'll find more scoria or even what we call vesicular basalt from those. The holes in pumice, scoria, and basalt are called vesicles. They're from gas bubbles in the lava when it solidifies. The solid bits of both scoria and pumice are glass (no minerals). Basalt has minerals in it, but it can still have vesicles.
Interestingly, perlite is just man made pumice. It's a mined volcanic glass, flash heated to 1600 degrees C. Tiny amounts of water trapped in the glass turn to steam and form bubbles as the glass melts. It kind of pops when the water flashes to steam and quenches preserving the bubbles.
Scott
fredman
Masterpiece
Interesting. Thanks 
Growstone is also man made pumice...only they use silica. Do you know about that process?
I have a piece of pink pumice. How is that made?
Growstone is also man made pumice...only they use silica. Do you know about that process?
I have a piece of pink pumice. How is that made?
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markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Interesting. Thanks
Growstone is also man made pumice...only they use silica. Do you know about that process?
I have a piece of pink pumice. How is that made?
I believe growstone is made from recycled glass whereas perlite is made from mined obsidian. The products are made with a similar process though, I think.
The color of pumice is determined primarily by its iron content. The redder it is, the more iron it has in it. Both these guys are pumice, for instance.
Because they both float on water.
Scott
fredman
Masterpiece
So the pink colouration is also because of it's iron content?
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I'd last ten minutes Adair. Everything I've ever learned has to have the why not just the how it's done. If we just learn the how something is done without learning the why,then we are nothing more than robots,correct?
I'm not trying to rile you up at all Adair. I have questions,I have someone in front of me that is supposed to have the answers to those questions,he's getting paid to train me his way of doing things,so if a question comes to mind I'm asking it.
I've been doing my job for a long time. I train/teach new employees in all aspects of my job. If someone asks me questions about what I'm teaching I welcome them. "Why do we have to put a rope in a tree for felling?" I say "So we can pull it in the direction we want it to go." Easy one right? Common sense. Every now and then though someone will ask "why this rope" or "what are our ropes made out of?" or "how strong is it?" All good questions and I answer them all. Because I'm the teacher. And I want my students to know all they can know and learn from me what they can before I send them out in the world on their own. That way someday they can teach new guys how to do things properly.
Look at it this way. You give demonstrations/lessons on bonsai. You are going over repotting and you're saying to use pumice for the drainage layer and someone asks "why?"
You surely aren't going to say "I don't know,but that is what my teacher taught me so that's what we use" Or get annoyed are you?
So you guys just do as Boon says without asking questions because he could get annoyed? Because he doesn't like to be questioned? Because he doesn't know the answer? Because his way is the only way and there is no need for questions? Because that is how he was taught?
I thought the whole reason for the intensives was for learning bonsai.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Very likely
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Mike,
It's not like I can't ask questions. And its not like I don't ask questions. I do. I've never asked him this particular question.
It's really difficult for me to accurately describe in words what it's like. He covers so much material, he can't go into great depth about ALL of it. He will go into great depth about SOME of it. Each Intensive is a little different, we work on different trees, different species. One year's Intendive Some things get more emphasis, some get less. Next year, they might get reversed!
He has an agenda for each Intensive, but it's a flexible one.
Reflecting on it.... I guess what annoys Boon is if you act as though you don't trust him. If you ask questions in such a way that you're seeking more in depth knowledge, he'll answer. Or maybe, he'll say wait, we'll get to that. But if he feels you're asking the "why" questions in a challenging way, that you doubting him, that's what annoys him.
Mike, if you want to discuss this further, PM me with your phone number, I think I can express myself better vocally. But, I can't call until tonight. I'm teaching a class today!
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
I'm afraid you may have been left with the wrong impression. I've worked with Boon quite a bit - I've been to seven of his intensives and he comes to my house a couple of times a year and works with me one-on-one. Over the years I've worked with many others (as point of reference - David Degroot and Dan Robinson were my first teachers, but I've worked with Kathy Shaner, Bjorn Bjorholm, Matt Reel, Owen Reich, Jim Doyle, Keiichi Fujikawa, Ed Trout, Jason Schley, Pedro Morales, Bill Valavanis, Peter Tea, Howard & Sylvia Smith and others). There are several on that list that I would go back to and a couple with whom I'll never work with again. Boon stacks up high for me and I consider him to be a very effective teacher. People ask him questions all of the time - I pepper him with questions and he is very patient about answering them. But all of us have our own personalities, our strengths and weaknesses as a teacher and subject areas that are our expertise - I teach geology and no one asks me about felling trees. Boon's particular areas of expertise are styling and technique. He is not a soil physicist, so if that's what you're trying to learn you might get more value for your money going elsewhere. But if you're looking to learn areas in which he is a subject matter expert, there are few better to learn from.
He does have a strong personality. He does not tolerate fools gladly. He can lose patience gets when he feels as though he's had to repeat himself too often or when individuals engage in debate rather than try to learn. Because of that, some get along with him and some don't. When we have so many choices in a teacher, it's important to try and figure out with whom we can work well - personality clashes are not conducive to learning.
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M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Thanks Adair and Scott. At first it sounded like it was a one way class. I see now.
And I get the not wanting debates but a few good questions are accepted.
And I get the not wanting debates but a few good questions are accepted.
Guy Vitale
Shohin
I've started using 'Growstone' in my soil mix last year, just finished repotting two trees today in which I repotted last year using my new mix. These 2 trees were nursery trees and still had some nursery soil from last year that I wanted to remove. I must say the roots were very strong and dense where growing in the mix and very week or dead where growing in the old soil. I would say that the 'Growstone' makes a very good component to my Bonsai soil mix. I look forward to see how my other trees repotted last year responded when I repot over the next couple years. I won't say it's the nicest looking component, but it's an inexpensive alternative to pumice which is tough to get in the Midwest without paying a bunch for shipping.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Scott, Adair, thanks for commenting. A couple of thoughts.
1) It's hard to imagine that you'd get students paying all that money and then basically arguing and refusing to do what is suggested! I mean, why bother? I suppose some have more money than brains. It's fair to question some things, to want to understand why things are done a certain way, but if you're going to resist most of what is being taught you might as well stay at home.
2) I would guess that the reason a lot of experts do things a certain way is either because "that's the way I was taught" and/or "that's the way I've always done it." Many probably don't really know the reason "why" things work, they just do (or did for their teacher).
Shima
Omono
For years I've read this about pumice. My trees are in straight pumice with some milled sphagnum, but some stock in pumice only and never has pumice floated away or in any way been disturbed by watering or heavy pounding rain.
fredman
Masterpiece
I see the work they do with Boon at the intensives as the practical side of bonsai more than a theoretical. There don't seem to be time for a theoretical sit down. That's the way I like to learn to. I don't like to be spoon fed about everything. Tell me and show me a little, and afterwards i'll fill in the spaces for myself through theoretical research, and good old logical thinking....
fredman
Masterpiece
Not for me either. In fact it lies quite firmly in its place and don't get disturbed much, during a strong flush from the watering can. The only time I'm cautious with it, is when I dunk the pot in a big container....then it floats away
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
I have seen similar in other types of workshops (art/painting related, not bonsai). It does suck when it happens.
Of course!
Shima
Omono
Don't do that.Not for me either. In fact it lies quite firmly in its place and don't get disturbed much, during a strong flush from the watering can. The only time I'm cautious with it, is when I dunk the pot in a big container....then it floats away
Fredman, each Intensive has practical work, and Theoritical work. The mornings, before class really starts, most of us wander thru the benches studying the trees. Some are "ready to show", some just collected, or dug from growing fields, and there's everything in between. It's also fun to see the progress. See a tree in June, the see the changes in November.I see the work they do with Boon at the intensives as the practical side of bonsai more than a theoretical. There don't seem to be time for a theoretical sit down. That's the way I like to learn to. I don't like to be spoon fed about everything. Tell me and show me a little, and afterwards i'll fill in the spaces for myself through theoretical research, and good old logical thinking....
Then, we study videos. Mostly these are of Japanese Masters, like Kimura or Suzuki. Often they're in Japanese, and Boon comments on what is being depicted.
After that, Boon has handouts of relevant to the season topics. They can cover styling, display, propagation, wiring, potting, any and every aspect of bonsai. All of this is the Theoritical stuff. This is "classroom" work, and questions are encouraged.
After lunch is the hands on trees time. Each student is assigned a tree according to their ability and experience. There is some flexibility here. If someone really wants to work on, say, Hinoki Cypress, Boon can usually find a way.
Usually each student works individually, occasionally he will ask an advanced student to help out a beginner. Beginners usually get more attention from Boon than the advanced students, because he needs to make sure they are doing things properly.
Boon takes pure beginners as well as experienced students. He actually prefers to get students who are relatively new to bonsai! They have no bad habits to fix! Someone like me who had been doing bonsai for 35 years is hard for Boon. I had a lot of bad habits!! Fortunately, I also came with an open mind, and i came to learn.
I wrote about this in my thread "What's it like to take an Intensive".
