Smallish formal spruce

[base797]

Odd that I am posting formal trees seeing as I only have a few. This one has a caliper of 3.5 inches and a height of 28". It was collected 4 years ago and got the bones set last year. No detail wiring till late summer/early fall. It came out of a mixing tub a couple weeks ago and into a training pot. Any thoughts? Curious what people think about the long, manufactured jins? It had longer ones along the the lower trunk, but none at acceptable angles, so they were shorten. Part of me try's really hard to keep all old wood/jins and incorporate them into the style, but that may be undermining potential? These are the before shots.

Patrik

 

[base797]

Here are some afters and today as well as the back budding.

Patrik

 

[sorce]

I think the low ones are too thin.
And the top one is too long and apparent.

I'd take off the low ones for a scarless look at the nice bark.

Friggin sweet Again!

Sorce

P.s. nice!

 

[base797]

Solid advice Sorce. Thanks. You think I should attempt to reduce the notion of being hung up on incorporating natural deadwood in the designs?

Patrik

 

[Cypress187]

Wow, that huge roll of wire, haha. I only have the cheap small rolls.

 

[sorce]

Solid advice Sorce. Thanks. You think I should attempt to reduce the notion of being hung up on incorporating natural deadwood in the designs?

Patrik

I think keeping everything possible at first is an excellent idea.

It looks as if you'd already cleaned the trunk ones.
It looks Nice.

You Probly have some with great natural deadwood.

This straight trunk seems proudest clean...
That and the thin, numerous trunk jins just made it look young.

The top ones can still be shortened I reckon. But it's not like they're growing!

I look forward to seeing more!

Balls!

Sorce

 

[base797]

Cypress, yeah I usually use that for guy wires on recently collected stuff. Can't recall why I had it out that day because I used copper on the tree even for anchor/guy wires.

Sorce, guess I'll leave as is for now and make the final decisions later this year when it gets further work.

Patrik

 

[Steve Kudela]

Here are some afters and today as well as the back budding.

PatrikView attachment 97823View attachment 97824View attachment 97825View attachment 97826View attachment 97827

Love the tree!. If it were mine, I'd reduce them.

 

[base797]

Steve,
Thanks a bunch. My guess is that they will get reduced later this year (assuming it continues to thrive, I like one season of growth between major events). But, I think I like the idea of trying to intertwine/wire the foliage with it as is and then decide. As many have alluded to on various bnut threads, you can't put stuff back onto a tree so make certain you want to remove it.

Patrik

 

[Djtommy]

Nice material, i wouldnt cut or shorten any more now.
Itll be more clear when you style it this fall.

You made the big jin at the top now? I would have kept it for fall work as well.
Actually i wonder if this couldnt have been an interesting branch to use in the design as well. Maybe a bit odd but odd is often a good thing.

I still like the tree though, nice

 

[Steve Kudela]

Steve,
Thanks a bunch. My guess is that they will get reduced later this year (assuming it continues to thrive, I like one season of growth between major events). But, I think I like the idea of trying to intertwine/wire the foliage with it as is and then decide. As many have alluded to on various bnut threads, you can't put stuff back onto a tree so make certain you want to remove it.

Patrik

just the other day, we were talking about the same thing with one of mine.I'm going to reduce slowly as well.

 

[base797]

Djtommy, initially it was such a heave branch/secondary trunk that stuck straight out to the side. As you observed, it was jin'd and bent drastically to attempt to incorporate it into the design. I left it on at the time, but when looking at it during repotting, it just wasn't working for me. It was like an elephant trunk. Suppose if I kept it, I could have named it snuffleupagas.

 

[GSCarlson]

I will be hiking the Rockies this summer looking for a small tree to harvest next spring. Can you recommend a good area in the west, northwest of Boulder area? In Roosevelt or Arapaho NF?

 

[base797]

GSC, don't get me wrong, you certainly should get out there, but no one on a forum is gonna give you directions to a personally proven spot.

Colorado's front range is a little tougher as the access, proximity and duration has led to the areas being a bit picked over. Are you a member of RMBS? They usually schedule a trip or two per year.

There are windows of time that will greatly affect success rate. Methods and techniques as well. And, those things, people are much more willing to share. If you do precede without mentoring, please be responsible and respectful.

Patrik

 

[Gene Deci]

The conventional wisdom on spruce is that they don't hold shape well. Even if wire is left on so long it starts to cut in, the branch tends to spring back when the wire is cut off. You might explore clip and grow possibilities with the plentiful branched you have.

Andy Smith is famous for his native spruce trees. You might want to google him for lots of great examples.

 

[base797]

Hi Gene,

If deci is the beginning of your last name, we may be related?

Hmmm, conventional wisdom, eh?

My experience... wire stays on for 2-3 years, large branches rebound just a little, small branches typically require another wiring if only slightly bent. More aggressive bends on smaller branches set better/quicker. On developing spruce, cut back new shoots after hardening off (beginning of June here), but be sure to leave a modicum of the new growth though. This is how you get back budding.

Andy Smith, never heard of him? No, really, I am aware of him and one or two others.

Patrik

 

[GSCarlson]

GSC, don't get me wrong, you certainly should get out there, but no one on a forum is gonna give you directions to a personally proven spot.

Colorado's front range is a little tougher as the access, proximity and duration has led to the areas being a bit picked over. Are you a member of RMBS? They usually schedule a trip or two per year.

There are windows of time that will greatly affect success rate. Methods and techniques as well. And, those things, people are much more willing to share. If you do precede without mentoring, please be responsible and respectful.

Patrik

I figured it would be similar to asking someone where their favorite fishing spot is. The wife and I do a lot of hiking during the summer so I will be always scanning for interesting potential bonsai. If I find something this year then I will get a transplant permit next spring and do my research before I attempt to dig up a tree. Do smaller, younger trees have a better chance of success for newbie collector? I know it depends on a lot of factors, though..

 

[base797]

GSC,
Ha, fish move around a bit, replenish (relatively) quickly and trees don't. Also, not many $10k fish out there. I recall asking someone (Larry Jackal) the exact same question, his reply "west of Denver, in the mountains". That's a great plan, always be looking anytime your out there. It will take some time to figure out what is "collectible" and to see real potential.

What's your current position in the hobby? If you dread repotting and not confident with it yet, probably need a little more experience before being successful collecting. You can pm me pics of material and site and I'd be happy to try and help.

Yes, generally speaking, younger trees are more forgiving.

Patrik

 

[GSCarlson]

I first tried collecting a tree many years ago. About 20 years ago. I didn't know what I was doing. Poor tree didn't stand a chance. Then between kids and work, I could only play around with a few potensai on the side. Now I am semi-retired and the kids are grown. I have time to pursue my obsession.
The last month or so I have been exploring outside of Lyons, just as "practice". There are a lot of trees that would make great bonsai, but the landscape is very rocky and the trees are locked in cracks. Collecting isn't permitted there, but it is still fun to look.
This summer I will be keeping an eye out for shohin trees <1'. Maybe small enough to be passed by the trophy hunters.

 

[base797]

GSC,
Indeed, many trees would not survive the process of extraction if the site is less than desirable. Moreover, aftercare is of the utmost importance.

Patrik