Skin Graft

[bonhe]

This morning, I worked on this Kakuju pine. I will show you another way to approach this technique.
Before
View attachment 381214

After pruning, removing the wires and some old needles, I removed 2 unnecessary big branches .

The 1st wound
View attachment 381227
Because this wound is right in the big trunk, it is not good to use the grafting tape to keep the skin in place! I decided to use Crazy Glue instead of tape!
View attachment 381233

The problem which may appear with glue is that the skin may not attached well to the wound bottom. Because of that, it may create the gap between the skin and the wound bottom. This gap will hold the sap excreted from the wound, which may turn out into the “sapoma “ . This sapoma may prevent the healing process of the skin graft, lead to a failure!

To avoid of sapoma, I made multiple tiny holes on the skin . I have this dental tool which works well for this purpose.
View attachment 381228 View attachment 381229

The skin with multiple puncture wounds through and through!
View attachment 381230

After cut the skin to fit into the wound area, I placed it into the wound. One hand used the flat blade to press the skin down, while another hand squeezed a little Crazy glue into the border of the skin and the wound. The glue was just sucked in easily.
View attachment 381231

After one minute, the blade was removed. The skin still stayed well in place !
View attachment 381232

In 5 minutes, as I expected, there were some oozing coming out from some tiny holes !
View attachment 381234 View attachment 381235

Thụ Thoại

More than 2 weeks under the Summer heat, the graft is still looking good


Thụ Thoại

 

[HENDO]

This is really cool! Thanks for sharing @bonhe and looking forward to seeing the further progress/results.

I'm wondering if this technique could be used to seal deep wounds filled with epoxy? My initial thought is no, that the "skin" would dry out quickly in the center, but thought it would be a good question to raise.

Maybe something that the Skin Graft Guru could try further down the road?

 

[R3x]

More than 2 weeks under the Summer heat, the graft is still looking good
View attachment 384803

Thụ Thoại

Is the grafted skin alive? And how do you know?

 

[bonhe]

This is really cool! Thanks for sharing @bonhe and looking forward to seeing the further progress/results.

I'm wondering if this technique could be used to seal deep wounds filled with epoxy? My initial thought is no, that the "skin" would dry out quickly in the center, but thought it would be a good question to raise.

Maybe something that the Skin Graft Guru could try further down the road?

View attachment 384804

Hi Hendo,
Thanks for your kind words.
I think this technique should be worked in your case. In my experience, the incision over the abscess tends to heal faster than the cavity filling up process is. Because of that, the patient may have another abscess later on. Using that knowledge to answer your question, I say yes, the Bonhe skin graft technique can be used for situation. However, if I did that on your case, I will not make multiple puncture wounds on the skin piece, because there is no sap exudate collecting beneath the skin piece. Let try it and please let me know if it work.

Is the grafted skin alive? And how do you know?

Thanks for questions. No way I can know if the grafted skin is alive at this time because of the bark. With human skin, I can tell you in a week or two if grafted skin is alive. Human skin turn cyanosis, and black when no blood supply, but the tree bark! I wish I could have tissue oxymeter to check the deep part of the grafted skin. I said it looks good so far because it is still attached to the site with its border have some kind of activity. If the grafted skin is sloughed off, it finishes. I will have more definite answer in a year or two. Let see what the grafted skin turns out to be.
However, your question will lead me to another experiment which will be done soon
Thụ Thoại

 

[HENDO]

Hi Hendo,
Thanks for your kind words.
I think this technique should be worked in your case. In my experience, the incision over the abscess tends to heal faster than the cavity filling up process is. Because of that, the patient may have another abscess later on. Using that knowledge to answer your question, I say yes, the Bonhe skin graft technique can be used for situation. However, if I did that on your case, I will not make multiple puncture wounds on the skin piece, because there is no sap exudate collecting beneath the skin piece. Let try it and please let me know if it work.


Thanks for questions. No way I can know if the grafted skin is alive at this time because of the bark. With human skin, I can tell you in a week or two if grafted skin is alive. Human skin turn cyanosis, and black when no blood supply, but the tree bark! I wish I could have tissue oxymeter to check the deep part of the grafted skin. I said it looks good so far because it is still attached to the site with its border have some kind of activity. If the grafted skin is sloughed off, it finishes. I will have more definite answer in a year or two. Let see what the grafted skin turns out to be.
However, your question will lead me to another experiment which will be done soon
Thụ Thoại

Thanks Thụ for the quick response!

Confirmed on not making the puncture wounds, this makes sense.

I will wait for a cutting large enough to steal some skin from and try the Bonhe technique here. I have several wounds to be filled that will be good candidates for the expirement, and will report back with results accordingly. Looking forward to the positive results and progress from your expirements as well!

-HENDO

 

[bonhe]

Thanks Thụ for the quick response!

Confirmed on not making the puncture wounds, this makes sense.

I will wait for a cutting large enough to steal some skin from and try the Bonhe technique here. I have several wounds to be filled that will be good candidates for the expirement, and will report back with results accordingly. Looking forward to the positive results and progress from your expirements as well!

-HENDO

you are welcome.
It sounds good to me . Good luck on your project.
Thụ Thoại

 

[bonhe]

More than 2 weeks under the Summer heat, the graft is still looking good
View attachment 384803

Thụ Thoại

It is healing well at this time. Pictures taken this afternoon


The dry sap drop (yellow arrow )

Thụ Thoại

 

[namnhi]

@bonhe How do we know if that piece of skin is still alive and not just a piece of back got glued on the wound? Do you see signs that it is still alive?

 

[bonhe]

@bonhe How do we know if that piece of skin is still alive and not just a piece of back got glued on the wound? Do you see signs that it is still alive?

Thanks for asking .
I don’t want to check if the grafted skin is still alive but the fact that the edge of wound is contacting well with the edge of skin ( red arrows) and the grafted skin is not dislodged are good indications of it is doing well.


I have another skin graft on different tree was detached from the wound in 2 months !
However , I will continue following up on the grafts and will occasionally update you.
Thụ Thoại

 

[bonhe]

This JBP had one skin graft on the lowest branch about 3 months ago.


The tape covering the grafted site was bulging yesterday. Sign of failure!


The tape was removed. 3 pieces of skin were fallen off ( I used 3 small pieces instead of one whole piece)


However, I am very happy to see the site is healing very well! With black pine, it would take a long time to see healing process. In this case, there is a nice healing process seen in 3 months!

Thụ Thoại

 

[River's Edge]

This JBP had one skin graft on the lowest branch about 3 months ago.
View attachment 404442

The tape covering the grafted site was bulging yesterday. Sign of failure!
View attachment 404443

The tape was removed. 3 pieces of skin were fallen off ( I used 3 small pieces instead of one whole piece)
View attachment 404444

However, I am very happy to see the site is healing very well! With black pine, it would take a long time to see healing process. In this case, there is a nice healing process seen in 3 months!
View attachment 404445
Thụ Thoại

This would seem to support wound covering as an aide to healing scars, be it Op site or cut paste.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

When I see this process, I wonder if it is better to try in the winter, when the sap is not flowing, versus the summer, when it is.

For pine grafting (scions or branches) you want to do your work in the winter because the active sap flow in the summer will often cause the graft to fail.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

That grafting method is used since a long time for grafting fruit Olives cultivars in Wild olives

 

[River's Edge]

When I see this process, I wonder if it is better to try in the winter, when the sap is not flowing, versus the summer, when it is.

For pine grafting (scions or branches) you want to do your work in the winter because the active sap flow in the summer will often cause the graft to fail.

I think another factor might be the multiple piece approach. The strongest healing edge for cell division would be the edge of the wound, if it is tight to the patch all the way around, that would seem to give the best chance for success. with multiple pieces to the patch this would not be possible. edges of patch would butt up to other patch edges instead of the wound edge.
The active growing season may be beneficial as the patch and tree may have a higher activity level of growth and division. But as you indicate this involves higher sap levels. Perhaps this can be managed with speed to create a tight fit prior to sap interfering. I know this makes a difference in most grafting if the scion is placed quickly.

 

[bonhe]

This would seem to support wound covering as an aide to healing scars, be it Op site or cut paste.

You are absolutely right! As I said in the past, Opsite is too expensive for this

When I see this process, I wonder if it is better to try in the winter, when the sap is not flowing, versus the summer, when it is.

For pine grafting (scions or branches) you want to do your work in the winter because the active sap flow in the summer will often cause the graft to fail.

yeah, I agree with you that the best time to do side grafting is in winter. I also thought about skin graft in the winter to avoid fluid collection beneath the graft, but I performed it in the summer because it is the time we pruned trees. To avoid the sap collection beneath the graft, I made multiple holes on the piece of skin. Then after I wrapped it up tightly with grafting tape, I made other holes through the tape all the way down to the hard wood. I think these actions are still not good enough to avoid sap collection, leading to the failure! After I made above graft, I used different approach: after making multiple holes on the skin, I placed it into the site and used crazy glue to fill the small gap if it had between the skin and wound edge at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o’clock. Then I used a flat stainless steel blade (used in dental procedure) to compress down on the skin surface in 3-4 minutes (to make sure no gap between skin inner surface and hard wood ). After a few days, I could see a lot of sap oozing from the skin holes!
With this technique, the skin graft still stay in place after a few months and so far so good!

That grafting method is used since a long time for grafting fruit Olives cultivars in Wild olives

I think you are talking about side graft. My technique is skin graft.

I think another factor might be the multiple piece approach. The strongest healing edge for cell division would be the edge of the wound, if it is tight to the patch all the way around, that would seem to give the best chance for success. with multiple pieces to the patch this would not be possible. edges of patch would butt up to other patch edges instead of the wound edge.
The active growing season may be beneficial as the patch and tree may have a higher activity level of growth and division. But as you indicate this involves higher sap levels. Perhaps this can be managed with speed to create a tight fit prior to sap interfering. I know this makes a difference in most grafting if the scion is placed quickly.

Yeah, multiple pieces is not good as single one!

Thụ Thoại

 

[River's Edge]

I used different approach: after making multiple holes on the skin, I placed it into the site and used crazy glue to fill the small gap if it had between the skin and wound edge at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o’clock. Then I used a flat stainless steel blade (used in dental procedure) to compress down on the skin surface in 3-4 minutes (to make sure no gap between skin inner surface and hard wood ). After a few days, I could see a lot of sap oozing from the skin holes!

creative approach to lessen the sap risk! Well thought out.

 

[bonhe]

creative approach to lessen the sap risk! Well thought out.

Thanks .
This afternoon, I just had some work on this Korean black pine and like to show you another skin graft with using of grafting tape to hold it in place .


skin graft was done on 5/2/21


I decide to remove the tape today



front view


Lateral view. The piece of skin has same surface level with adjacent area . Good sign


this side has grafted skin touched well with the wound edge. No gap seen


this side: healing scar grows between wound edge and grafted skin because the size of grafted skin smaller than the area of the wound !


there is a tiny hole on the top of grafted skin to which I could insert the small pine needle into . I measured the depth of this tunnel .


how depth it is ! Almost length of the grated skin !

I will continue observing this graft.
Thụ Thoại

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks .
This afternoon, I just had some work on this Korean black pine and like to show you another skin graft with using of grafting tape to hold it in place .
View attachment 404690

skin graft was done on 5/2/21
View attachment 404691

I decide to remove the tape today
View attachment 404692


front view
View attachment 404693

Lateral view. The piece of skin has same surface level with adjacent area . Good sign
View attachment 404694

this side has grafted skin touched well with the wound edge. No gap seen
View attachment 404695

this side: healing scar grows between wound edge and grafted skin because the size of grafted skin smaller than the area of the wound !
View attachment 404697 View attachment 404696

there is a tiny hole on the top of grafted skin to which I could insert the small pine needle into . I measured the depth of this tunnel .
View attachment 404698

how depth it is ! Almost length of the grated skin !View attachment 404699

I will continue observing this graft.
Thụ Thoại

Is there any sign of healing edge on the graft piece, or does it solely come from the wound edge? I am having trouble understanding how the graft patch could be expected to remain alive without ongoing cell transportation of nutrients and water.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

I think you are talking about side graft. My technique is skin graft.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Is there any sign of healing edge on the graft piece, or does it solely come from the wound edge? I am having trouble understanding how the graft patch could be expected to remain alive without ongoing cell transportation of nutrients and water.

When I look at @bonhe work, I think what is important to keep in mind is that only the cambium layer of the bark can heal, so it is critically important to align the cambium of the skin graft with the cambium of the outside bark. If there is a gap, or if the cambium doesn't align exactly, the tree will grow callous instead of bridging the wound. Underneath the skin graft there is no healing tissue, so the skin graft will always be like a blister... but with time it won't matter because the tree bark will continue to grow layers that will cover the wound. In the summer, because of the sap flow, the sap will tend to gather beneath the skin graft and push the skin graft off. But if you perforate the skin graft, the sap will have an exit wound and will escape instead of causing the graft to fail. That is why I think if you tried this technique in winter, it might be easier because I don't think you would need to perforate the graft. At least... in theory I have no experience with it in practice

There may be something else beneficial going on here as well, because even where the skin graft is failing, he is getting very good callous growth - much faster than I would normally expect. Not sure if that is due to the graft material, or maybe covering the wound with grafting tape(?) but it would normally take me a couple of seasons to get wound closure like he is getting in just a few months.